[LUNI] RE: One more thing -- KDE

[Martin Maney]

On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 04:30:09PM -0600, Larry Garfield wrote:
> I believe the catch is that in KDE 3, KDE is moving more towards a 
> "highlight and hit Ctrl+C" rather than the traditional "any highlight 
> implies copy" methodology.  That's actually a VERY GOOD THING, as for a 

Wrong on both counts.  Highlighting does *not* imply copy, or rather,
"copy" as you mean it (in the the-way-Windows-works sense) is not the
same thing as what selecting text in an X app means.  The X approach is
actually more convenient, as long as applications are written by somone
who understands it.  I have to admit that if you're trying to provide
an imitation of Windows, it might not be quite the thing, so if KDE3 is
breaking the traditional X conventions in pursuit of Windows-ness, it
will probably not be very useful for KDE3 applications.  Now *that*
would be fragmentation.

Here's Zawinski's famous dissertation on the way X selections work:

  http://www.jwz.org/doc/x-cut-and-paste.html

> GRAPHICAL system where you are going to be highlighting text all the 
> time, having it act as a copy function as well can be very very 
> confusing.

Only for a few minutes, unless the applications are badly designed. 
"Badly designed" as in "doesn't obey these sensible and useful
conventions which may be older than the dude who coded the broken app."
Of course, if you don't care about interoperation with all those Other
X applications, most of which "get it", you may as well follow your own
weird.

> It makes sense in a limited graphical or text-mode setup (like gpm on
> the console), where you won't really be highlighting text for any
> other reason, but in a full GUI setup it is detrimental to the use of
> the overall system.

'scuse me, but this is bullshit.  Perhaps you meant to say "It makes
sense *to* *me* ..."?

> Try using Ctrl+C to copy stuff, I'm sure you'll be able to paste it into 
> something else.

Hint: the wonderful thing about the primary selection and the way it
works (with non-broken X applications, anyway) is that you don't need
to hit any bloody damned keys to use it.  Y'know, like as if you were
working in a graphical environment rather than the keyboard-centric
command line one where you have to hit, say, control-C?  :-)

Actually, the one place where the X conventions are less than ideal is
arguably in an xterm, where you probably *are* using the keyboard
anyway.  But then the real problem is that you have to reach for the
mouse to make the selection (if you do - here again, not all apps are
equally well designed) in the first place.

-- 
There's one way to find out if a man is honest: ask him;
if he says yes, you know he's crooked.  -- Twain