[LUNI] RE: One more thing -- KDE

[Martin Maney]

On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 08:30:23PM -0600, Larry Garfield wrote:
> I see, so "badly designed" can mean "doesn't obey the arbitrary rule 
> decided on 20 years ago by someone who doesn't even use computers 
> anymore", but not "doesn't obey the arbitrary rule used by and familiar 
> to 95% of the computer using population of the world."  Right.

I'm happy to see that you agree that the explicit cut command approach
is an arbitrary convention.  Of course all computer UI conventions are
arbitrary to some extent - that's why they are conventions.

But the rest of this is still all just wrong, or at least is stated so
badly it might as well be wrong.  It's not the conventions themselves
that deserve respect; it's the fact that all the programs that have
been developed for "twenty years" have followed those conventions.  Of
course, if you plan to throw out all those old apps...

As for the 95%, I see your red herring and call.  'cause if the 95%
were important to X, X and Unix would have folded and been replaced by
Windows a long time ago, and I wouldn't have to spoon-feed you basic
facts of life like this.

> OK, so now that we've got the "I got there first" bit out of the way, 
> how about discussing the technique itself rather than "because it's done 
> that way"?

Those who are ignorant of Unix are doomed to reinvent it... badly.

> Almost every GUI I've seen lately has a context menu accessible via 
> mouse-only that includes copy and paste commands.  No keyboard required. 

It's still more work for no good reason.

>   And having the right hand on the mouse and left hand over the 
> Ctrl+something keys

Where did that come from?  Oh, wait, are you talking about Apple's
inane idealogical resistance to putting more than one button on a
mouse, therefore requiring the key-plus-click kluge?

> does not have the same penalty that moving the right hand off of the
> mouse does in terms of speed.

Except when you have something else to do with that other hand -
holding a book open, holding a cuppa, a phone, etc., etc.  I can agree
that key-plus-click may be better than some alternatives in some
circumstances, but as a replacement for middle-button insert, it's not
in the running.

> I operate by both keyboard and mouse, as well as keyboard only and mouse 
> only at times.  It boils down quite simply to the fact that the system 
> is trying to be smarter than me, and assume that when I highlight 
> something that I want to copy it.

It doesn't: it assumes that when you select something that you want to
select it.  Copying (usually, though not necessarily) the selection to
the clipboard is a different operation.  Likewise, inserting the
selection is different than pasting from the clipboard.  I know,
there's more stuff than Windows has, and you haven't a clue why it's
different.  I'm sorry, but sometimes you need to let go of the old and
comfortable a little in order to let in a new idea.

> Give me control over my clipboard.

The problem isn't that what you want is unreasonable; it's your demand
that the rest of the world change so that you won't have to learn how
things already work that's the problem.  Well, plus the X apps that
don't follow the conventions.  That would be Netscrap, wouldn't it?

-- 
A delicate balance is necessary between sticking with the things
you know and can rely upon, and exploring things which have the
potential to be better.  Assuming that either of these strategies
is the one true way is silly.  -- Graydon Hoare