From steven.mcgrath at chigeek.com Tue Jan 2 10:55:16 2007 From: steven.mcgrath at chigeek.com (Steven McGrath) Date: Tue Jan 2 10:55:32 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Janury 5th Chicago 2600 Meeting Information Message-ID: <28326b7c0701020855j77854bafu6267c0a6a2af2ecc@mail.gmail.com> The January Chicago 2600 Meeting is near! The meeting will be this friday at the Neighborhood Boys and Girls Club and will feature much of the same usual fun that all of you have grown to expect! [Presentation Information] - 9.00pm - Web Apps. for public terminal use (Maniac) - 10:00pm - ATM Hacking [Unconfirmed] - After hours - Wii [General Information] - Meeting Time: 7.00pm - Approx. 3-5am - Meeting Date: Friday, Jan. 5th - Place : 2501 W Irving Park Road, Chicago - More Info : http://chicago2600.net From m.mccune at comcast.net Wed Jan 3 13:33:06 2007 From: m.mccune at comcast.net (m.mccune@comcast.net) Date: Wed Jan 3 07:33:30 2007 Subject: [LUNI] ANN: WCLUG Meeting on First Thursday of the Month. Message-ID: <010320071333.18486.459BB0920005EEB40000483622007340760A029A0C0C03D203@comcast.net> We are choosing a new meeting place this month. Letizia's has been great but it is starting to get crowded. Free wireless would also be great. Come and discuss where we meet next month. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Windy City Linux Users Group Meeting Date: Thursday, January 4, 2007 Time: 7:00PM - 9:30PM CDT (GMT-05:00) Windy City Linux Users Group (http://wclug.org) WCLUG is also listed on TechVenue.com (http://calendars.techvenue.com/cgi-bin/techvenue.pl?CalendarName=USMidwest) and Tech Social (http://www.techsocial.com) @ Letizia's Natural Bakery (http://www.superyummy.com) 2144 West Division Chicago phone: 773-342-1011 Letizia's has excellent food and beverages, available for purchase. We have a one-drink minimum, in exchange for the great location. -- Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Announcements Mailing List http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni-announce From richard at rushlogistics.com Wed Jan 3 07:25:52 2007 From: richard at rushlogistics.com (Richard Reina) Date: Wed Jan 3 09:32:39 2007 Subject: [LUNI] ANN: WCLUG Meeting on First Thursday of the Month. In-Reply-To: <010320071333.18486.459BB0920005EEB40000483622007340760A029A0C0C03D203@comcast.net> Message-ID: <905168.77368.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mike, Hope you don't mind me responding to you directly. Good seeing you a few weeks ago at McGees. How about Goose Island at 1800 N Clybourn. It's closer into the city. Close to the EL and has parking for the driving types. I never could make it to Letizza's as it was a bit too far for me. During the 2004 Presidential campaign I went to some meetings at Goose Island and the staff seems somewhat to cater to that sort of thing. They have two or three seperate meeting rooms or we can just ellect to sit at tables in the main eating area. And they have wireless internet access. I would even kick in a small sponsorship: $50.00 bar tab for the first three months. Let me know your thoughs. Richard m.mccune@comcast.net wrote: We are choosing a new meeting place this month. Letizia's has been great but it is starting to get crowded. Free wireless would also be great. Come and discuss where we meet next month. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Windy City Linux Users Group Meeting Date: Thursday, January 4, 2007 Time: 7:00PM - 9:30PM CDT (GMT-05:00) Windy City Linux Users Group (http://wclug.org) WCLUG is also listed on TechVenue.com (http://calendars.techvenue.com/cgi-bin/techvenue.pl?CalendarName=USMidwest) and Tech Social (http://www.techsocial.com) @ Letizia's Natural Bakery (http://www.superyummy.com) 2144 West Division Chicago phone: 773-342-1011 Letizia's has excellent food and beverages, available for purchase. We have a one-drink minimum, in exchange for the great location. -- Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Announcements Mailing List http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni-announce -- Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny. -- Mahatma Gandhi From linux at unliketea.com Wed Jan 3 14:52:23 2007 From: linux at unliketea.com (linux@unliketea.com) Date: Wed Jan 3 15:03:35 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Ldap and Automount Message-ID: <34641.163.192.21.34.1167857543.squirrel@163.192.21.34> Hey Folks, I am looking from some help with Solaris Ldap and a linux client and getting automount to work. I have been able to get the user/pwd/shadow part to work correctly but staring automount generate this message: Jan 3 14:51:32 newton automount[7412]: init_ldap_connection: lookup(ldap): TLS required but START_TLS failed: Can't contact LDAP server Jan 3 14:51:32 newton automount[7412]: lookup_init: lookup(ldap): cannot initialize authentication setup Thanks Steve From richard at rushlogistics.com Wed Jan 3 19:03:49 2007 From: richard at rushlogistics.com (Richard Reina) Date: Wed Jan 3 21:03:57 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Key mapping Message-ID: <213954.43568.qm@web601.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello all, Can someone please tell me the simplest way to make one of the function keys on a keybord to execute a shell command. Thanks for any help. Richard From joe at the-frosts.org Thu Jan 4 07:08:28 2007 From: joe at the-frosts.org (Joe Frost) Date: Thu Jan 4 06:29:29 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Key mapping In-Reply-To: <213954.43568.qm@web601.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <213954.43568.qm@web601.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Jan 3, 2007, at 10:03 PM, Richard Reina wrote: > Hello all, > > Can someone please tell me the simplest way to make one of the > function keys on a keybord to execute a shell command. > xbindkeys is what I use. JOe From richard at rushlogistics.com Thu Jan 4 05:23:53 2007 From: richard at rushlogistics.com (Richard Reina) Date: Thu Jan 4 07:24:00 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Key mapping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <171707.5679.qm@web606.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Joe, Thanks for the quick reply. I should have mentioned this is for a machine that does not run X windows. Is there a similar command for console mode? Thanks, Richard Joe Frost wrote: On Jan 3, 2007, at 10:03 PM, Richard Reina wrote: > Hello all, > > Can someone please tell me the simplest way to make one of the > function keys on a keybord to execute a shell command. > xbindkeys is what I use. JOe -- Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny. -- Mahatma Gandhi From luni at pyewacket.org Thu Jan 4 11:48:22 2007 From: luni at pyewacket.org (Mike Scott) Date: Thu Jan 4 12:48:26 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Has anyone else noticed this? Message-ID: <20070104114822.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.65ab0bef70.wbe@email.secureserver.net> This is the second time this week I've seen this kind of activity and both times the IP is coming from somewhere in Asia. I usually get these attempts in bursts of 2-4, but the quantity of attempts caught my eye. This is a box that I have set up with external SSH access and I use allow/deny to block out all except my work address, so I'm not too worried. Just wondered if anyone else has gotten this. - Mike Scott > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: LogWatch for prideth.pyewacket.net > From: root > Date: Thu, January 04, 2007 4:02 am > To: mscott@pyewacket.org > > ################## LogWatch 2.6 Begin ##################### > > --------------------- sendmail Begin ------------------------ > > 10403 bytes transferred > 3 messages sent > ---------------------- sendmail End ------------------------- > > > --------------------- SSHD Begin ------------------------ > > **Unmatched Entries** > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > refused connect from 219.101.39.218 (219.101.39.218) > refused connect from 219.101.39.218 (219.101.39.218) > > > ---------------------- SSHD End ------------------------- > > > > ###################### LogWatch End ######################### From skie at dragonsvalley.com Thu Jan 4 12:55:36 2007 From: skie at dragonsvalley.com (Branko Kotur) Date: Thu Jan 4 12:55:23 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Has anyone else noticed this? In-Reply-To: <20070104114822.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.65ab0bef70.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20070104114822.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.65ab0bef70.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <200701041255.36753.skie@dragonsvalley.com> I see thousands of SSH attempts on a daily basis. Some days there's almost nothing, others there's tens of thousands (most from the same IP). I haven't bothered to get any kind of demographics since it all seems random. Mostly, I think it's hacked machines trying to find other hackable machines. My servers are set to automatically ban any IP that has too many failed SSH login attempts. This has been going on for about 2 years or so. It seems to have just started suddenly and hasn't stopped since then. On Thursday 04 January 2007 12:48 pm, Mike Scott wrote: > This is the second time this week I've seen this kind of activity and > both times the IP is coming from somewhere in Asia. I usually get > these attempts in bursts of 2-4, but the quantity of attempts caught my > eye. > > This is a box that I have set up with external SSH access and I use > allow/deny to block out all except my work address, so I'm not too > worried. Just wondered if anyone else has gotten this. > > - Mike Scott > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: LogWatch for prideth.pyewacket.net > > From: root > > Date: Thu, January 04, 2007 4:02 am > > To: mscott@pyewacket.org > > > > ################## LogWatch 2.6 Begin ##################### > > > > --------------------- sendmail Begin ------------------------ > > > > 10403 bytes transferred > > 3 messages sent > > ---------------------- sendmail End ------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------- SSHD Begin ------------------------ > > > > **Unmatched Entries** > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 125.248.86.5 (125.248.86.5) > > refused connect from 219.101.39.218 (219.101.39.218) > > refused connect from 219.101.39.218 (219.101.39.218) > > > > > > ---------------------- SSHD End ------------------------- > > > > > > > > ###################### LogWatch End ######################### From ramin-list at badapple.net Thu Jan 4 10:50:32 2007 From: ramin-list at badapple.net (Ramin K) Date: Thu Jan 4 13:16:10 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Has anyone else noticed this? In-Reply-To: <20070104114822.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.65ab0bef70.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20070104114822.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.65ab0bef70.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <459D4C78.90506@badapple.net> Mike Scott wrote: > This is the second time this week I've seen this kind of activity and > both times the IP is coming from somewhere in Asia. I usually get > these attempts in bursts of 2-4, but the quantity of attempts caught my > eye. > > This is a box that I have set up with external SSH access and I use > allow/deny to block out all except my work address, so I'm not too > worried. Just wondered if anyone else has gotten this. > > - Mike Scott I only get these a few thousand times a day. Welcome to the Internet. :-) Ramin From zionics at crankynerd.com Thu Jan 4 12:53:00 2007 From: zionics at crankynerd.com (Scott Zionic) Date: Thu Jan 4 13:21:12 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Has anyone else noticed this? In-Reply-To: <20070104114822.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.65ab0bef70.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20070104114822.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.65ab0bef70.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <459D4D0C.6010900@crankynerd.com> Mike Scott wrote: > This is the second time this week I've seen this kind of activity and > both times the IP is coming from somewhere in Asia. I usually get > these attempts in bursts of 2-4, but the quantity of attempts caught my > eye. I used to get break-in attempts all the time. I moved my sshd port and haven't seen a single attempt since. Scott From dmourati at cm.math.uiuc.edu Thu Jan 4 13:54:48 2007 From: dmourati at cm.math.uiuc.edu (Demetri Mouratis) Date: Thu Jan 4 14:27:57 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Has anyone else noticed this? In-Reply-To: <459D4D0C.6010900@crankynerd.com> References: <20070104114822.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.65ab0bef70.wbe@email.secureserver.net> <459D4D0C.6010900@crankynerd.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Scott Zionic wrote: > > > Mike Scott wrote: >> This is the second time this week I've seen this kind of activity and >> both times the IP is coming from somewhere in Asia. I usually get >> these attempts in bursts of 2-4, but the quantity of attempts caught my >> eye. > > I used to get break-in attempts all the time. I moved my sshd port and > haven't seen a single attempt since. Security through obscurity eh? I know people who do this. Me, I just turn off SSH access from the internet. If you need a certain trusted host to access it then poke a tiny hole for that source IP only in your border firewall or iptables rules on that box. From zionics at crankynerd.com Thu Jan 4 14:34:26 2007 From: zionics at crankynerd.com (Scott Zionic) Date: Thu Jan 4 14:34:36 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Has anyone else noticed this? In-Reply-To: References: <20070104114822.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.65ab0bef70.wbe@email.secureserver.net> <459D4D0C.6010900@crankynerd.com> Message-ID: <459D64D2.2000307@crankynerd.com> Demetri Mouratis wrote: > Security through obscurity eh? I know people who do this. Me, I just > turn off SSH access from the internet. If you need a certain trusted > host to access it then poke a tiny hole for that source IP only in your > border firewall or iptables rules on that box. Unfortunately I need to be able to access my machine from random Internet addresses. My setup isn't "security through obscurity", though. The port move was solely to keep my logs from filling up with junk. Scott From ryan.aviles at gmail.com Thu Jan 4 23:32:58 2007 From: ryan.aviles at gmail.com (Ryan Aviles) Date: Thu Jan 4 23:33:03 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Key mapping In-Reply-To: <171707.5679.qm@web606.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <171707.5679.qm@web606.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Its probably something that will be shell specific: For bash (default on most systems) http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10877_11-5683375.html ryan On 1/4/07, Richard Reina wrote: > > Joe, > > Thanks for the quick reply. I should have mentioned this is for a machine > that does not run X windows. Is there a similar command for console mode? > > Thanks, > > Richard > > > > Joe Frost wrote: On Jan 3, 2007, at 10:03 PM, Richard > Reina wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > Can someone please tell me the simplest way to make one of the > > function keys on a keybord to execute a shell command. > > > > xbindkeys is what I use. > > JOe > > > > -- > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni > > > > Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your > words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits > become your values. Your values become your destiny. -- Mahatma Gandhi > -- > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni > From SqrFolkDnc at comcast.net Fri Jan 5 09:59:52 2007 From: SqrFolkDnc at comcast.net (Carey Tyler Schug) Date: Fri Jan 5 09:59:19 2007 Subject: [LUNI] (re)-Newed systems profesionals' group (re)-starting in Rolling Meadows, Jan 24 Message-ID: <459E75F8.3040103@comcast.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://luni.org/pipermail/luni/attachments/20070105/fa24c76f/attachment.htm From sfaci at cs.uic.edu Thu Jan 4 23:45:58 2007 From: sfaci at cs.uic.edu (Samir Faci) Date: Fri Jan 5 10:39:52 2007 Subject: [LUNI] ANN: Fwd: Flourish Conference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The UIC LUG, UIC ACM, and UIC CS Department among other various organization will be sponsoring a conference targeted at Open Source and Free software named Flourish (http://www.flourishconf.com) The intent of this letter is to keep everyone in the community informed of the upcoming event, extend an open invitation to all who wish to attend the event, as we as recruit any volunteers who would wish to help organize and plan the event. Also, if there any lists I'm missing, which I'm sure there are, please feel free to forward this to any concerned parties. -- Regards Samir Faci UIC LUG President -- Regards Samir Faci safaci2000@gmail.com Quote: Although, golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing. -- Dave Berry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ShortOpenInvite.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 42777 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://luni.org/pipermail/luni/attachments/20070104/980af4d4/ShortOpenInvite-0001.pdf -------------- next part -------------- -- Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Announcements Mailing List http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni-announce From kgarner at crt.realtors.org Fri Jan 5 15:37:32 2007 From: kgarner at crt.realtors.org (Keith T. Garner) Date: Fri Jan 5 15:37:34 2007 Subject: [LUNI] JOB: Center for REALTOR Technology, National Association of REALTORS Message-ID: <459EC51C.8030707@crt.realtors.org> I'll put the boring-corporate job description first. ---- Senior Research & Software Architect CENTER FOR REALTOR TECHNOLOGY (CRT) MAJOR DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES (NOT ALL-INCLUSIVE): Research and software development. Make decisions regarding software architecture, tools, and design. Manage from concept through release; ensure accuracy before release. Research new technology for use in future projects as well as to gain knowledge to help keep REALTORS? up to date on technology. Prepare and present technology based presentation (includes travel). Prepare articles for newsletters, blogs, and magazines and web pages. Assist in maintaining departmental servers (mail, web, backups, and source code control, etc.). Make decisions regarding software upgrades and installs, and recommend hardware upgrades. Represent NAR on the RETS standards group QUALIFICATIONS (EDUCATION, EXPERIENCE, SKILLS): Bachelor's degree required. The ideal candidate will have excellent writing and public speaking skills, possess a dynamic presence. Travel and public speaking required. More on the National Association of REALTORS can be found at http://realtor.org/ More on CRT can be found at http://realtor.org/crt ---- Now for some pretty non-HR prose on the job... CRT is looking to add a few special people to the staff. CRT is a challenging, yet rewarding place to work with one of the positive points being the ability to contribute to CRT?s direction. If you want to get into some new areas, you should consider this. The positions are available immediately and here is what we are looking for: * Code wrangling - We do work in a variety of languages. For example, among other languages, we?ve worked with C++, Java, PHP, and Ruby. * Humility - We do everything in the public eye, so be prepared * Openness - We do all our code as open source/free software and make heavy use of existing OSS tools. * Ability to create and present presentations - You need to be able to get up and talk on a stage covering a wide variety of technology topics. * Cross platform - We like to support them all: Unix, Windows, and Mac * Creativity - I don?t think you can do the above items without it! While not a requirement, we're especially interested in talking to people with SOAP 1.2 (and other web service) experience. Contact me directly if you have interest. Thanks, Keith -- Keith T. Garner - Managing Director - Center for REALTOR Technology kgarner@realtors.org - 312-329-3294 - http://blog.realtors.org/crt From mscott at pyewacket.org Fri Jan 5 14:55:28 2007 From: mscott at pyewacket.org (Mike Scott) Date: Fri Jan 5 15:55:31 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Has anyone else noticed this? Message-ID: <20070105145528.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.cc10b5698c.wbe@email.secureserver.net> I used to do that as well, but the firewall where I work is pretty restrictive and I don't control it. So I'm pretty much stuck with well-known ports. I even tried using a different port that was open in the firewall (i.e. port 80 for SSH since I don't have a web server) but that got blocked by our firewall as well. Like I said, there are usually only a half-dozen or so attempts per day, and the addresses are in groups of 3-4, but these are just hammering away. Which got me wondering if there was some new attack vector on the loose. - Mike Scott > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [LUNI] Has anyone else noticed this? > From: Scott Zionic > Date: Thu, January 04, 2007 12:53 pm > To: Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > > > Mike Scott wrote: > > This is the second time this week I've seen this kind of activity and > > both times the IP is coming from somewhere in Asia. I usually get > > these attempts in bursts of 2-4, but the quantity of attempts caught my > > eye. > > I used to get break-in attempts all the time. I moved my sshd port and > haven't seen a single attempt since. > > Scott > -- > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni From mikef at arbalest.com Fri Jan 5 18:13:35 2007 From: mikef at arbalest.com (Mike Fried) Date: Fri Jan 5 18:13:40 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Has anyone else noticed this? Message-ID: While were on the topic of firewalls I'd like to ask if anyone can explain what I'm seeing -- attempted port access on my laptop. I have a physical firewall (IPCop) a requests to ports other than 80 get blocked. On the green side of the firewall there is a wireless access point with the most secure configuration possible. Yet on my laptop (wireless to the green segment) McAfee regularly sees remote machines attempt to access various ports. This doesn't seem possible as nothing should get past the firewall or the wireless security. What's going on? From maney at two14.net Fri Jan 5 21:58:58 2007 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Fri Jan 5 21:59:05 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Has anyone else noticed this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070106035858.GB21457@furrr.two14.net> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 06:13:35PM -0600, Mike Fried wrote: > I have a physical firewall (IPCop) a requests to ports other than 80 > get blocked. On the green side of the firewall there is a wireless > access point with the most secure configuration possible. Yet on The most secure wireless belongs in an amber zone, 'cause it's no more than a good speedbump. Keeps the harmless folks out, that's about it. If your laptop is itself running over wifi, it should be locked up basically the same as though it were naked to the net. :-/ -- People make secure systems insecure because insecure systems do what people want and secure systems don't. -- James Grimmelmann From sushitech at voxlox.com Sat Jan 6 07:04:16 2007 From: sushitech at voxlox.com (D. Wade) Date: Sat Jan 6 07:23:43 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Linux equivalent for this? Message-ID: <459F9E50.1010008@voxlox.com> My good but Windows-touting friend and I were perusing the Seagate Mirra redundant file server [1] in a store and the Freedom9 freeStor box [2] online. Both are nice in that they offer redundant storage across multiple disks, with other features like rollback to previous versions of files, easy config of users/shares, backup of workstations, etc., all with no-brainer interfaces [3] . But at almost $400 for 250 gigs it seems like we could build something similar for much less. Of course we have different ideas about how we might go about it. He's recommending Windows 2003 Advanced Server and various M$ feature names which make me cringe. I suspect that Samba, Subversion, rsync, and a few other utilities could do the job. However I'm still more of a hobbyist than a server guru, so both the store-bought and the Windows solutions (ack) would be up and running before any good linux solution I could put together. My question to the community: are there any recommended distros or tools expressly for the purpose of SOHO file server / workstation backup system which offer redundancy and easy config, or does Windows win? We've got a ton of ready-made firewall distros, what about this niche? My googling and distrowatch haven't helped me much, so any suggestions very much appreciated! -- Derek W. LINKS [1] http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/external/mirra_personal_server [2] http://www.freedom9.com/products/product.php?p=17 [3] http://www.freedom9.com/emulators/emu_17/Login.htm From maney at two14.net Sun Jan 7 00:32:50 2007 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Sun Jan 7 00:33:01 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Linux equivalent for this? In-Reply-To: <459F9E50.1010008@voxlox.com> References: <459F9E50.1010008@voxlox.com> Message-ID: <20070107063250.GA22375@furrr.two14.net> On Sat, Jan 06, 2007 at 07:04:16AM -0600, D. Wade wrote: > My question to the community: are there any recommended distros or tools > expressly for the purpose of SOHO file server / workstation backup > system which offer redundancy and easy config, or does Windows win? > We've got a ton of ready-made firewall distros, what about this niche? File server has been pretty trivial for quite a while, and I know there have been (and presumably still are) distros that target this. For backing up Windows boxes, I suspect commercial solutions (which may use Linux under the hood of the applicance, or not) will win, since making that painless requires at least a sizable component that runs on the Windows boxes. (obvious, no?) Which isn't to say that there isn't something near enough to what you're looking for out there, but I wouldn't be shocked to learn that there wasn't, either. To be honest, for the SOHO market, I expect these preassembled appliances aren't really overpriced - in the sense that if the low-cost alternative is putting pieces together (1), that itch just won't get scratched at all. (1) even for what might seem to you or I like a trivial amount of assembly required. Consider how tiny the percentage of computers are sold as parts versus complete systems that need only to have a few clearly labeled cables plugged in (2) and their startup EULA accepted to work. (2) and even that appears to support a small but real service market for doing trivial system setup and maintenance. The computer equivalent of Jiffy Lube? :-) -- Hebb's dictum: If it isn't worth doing, it isn't worth doing well. From luni at pyewacket.org Sun Jan 7 15:04:16 2007 From: luni at pyewacket.org (Mike Scott) Date: Sun Jan 7 16:04:26 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Seen any good distros lately? Message-ID: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> I am considering changing Linux distros and wondered what your thoughts are. I realize that this is a bit like asking which religion is best, but wanted to get some input. I used to use Red Hat, but got tired of having to pay a subscription fee to easily recieve patches and updates. I migrated to SuSe and have been happy for the most part with it's ease of installation as well as being able to handle my peripherals without having to go on an easter egg hunt for obscure drivers. However, given SuSe's current "deal with the devil" (Microsoft), I can't in good concience continue to support them and ver 10.1 will be my last SuSe purchase.. I have basically three systems that I would like to run on and all three have different requirements, so a "one size fits all" approach may not be the way to go. Since I try to pay for distros that I use (developers have to eat too), I have no problem paying for three distros. I have a Sony VAIO laptop that I dual-boot between XP (a necessary evil) and Linux. I need good support for the usual laptop hardware, including wireless. Another is a P4 desktop system with nothing special, though I am considering buying a DVI video card for the LCD monitor I picked up last month, but will probably go with ATI on nVidia which seem to be widely supported. Both of the above run GUIs (KDE) and are used for the usual stuff like word processing, email, web etc. The third is a server which I want to use for ripping audio and video (though the audio will probably be ripped on the desktop box using ABCDE, and DVDs with whatever tool I get to work, since I didn't have room for a CD/DVD drive, but may install vid capture cards for MythTV) as well as general file storage. There is no GUI installed on this system, but will probably look at something like IceCast and MythTV on this as well as the SlimServer to run my SqueezeBoxes. This is a dual Xeon box (2.8G) with a 3Ware RAID card and 8, 250G SATA drives. This also brings up another decision as to which filesystem is best for this. Since I will be dealing with small (FLAC) audio files, as well as large (MPEG) files, there are pros and cons to each (JFS, EXT3, ReiserFS). Though that may be a separate thread altogether. - Mike Scott From skie at dragonsvalley.com Sun Jan 7 16:26:20 2007 From: skie at dragonsvalley.com (Branko Kotur) Date: Sun Jan 7 16:25:28 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Seen any good distros lately? In-Reply-To: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <200701071626.20758.skie@dragonsvalley.com> I currently use Gentoo on my main computer and Kubuntu on my laptop. I got sick of always recompiling/configuring everything on the laptop when I just want it to work right away. Gentoo isn't for everyone, but it's my favorite at the moment. Kubuntu is nice, but there are things about it that I don't really like. Ever since I read a review of Fedora Core 6 in Linux Format magazine, I've been wanting to try FC 6 on my laptop, but I'm just too lazy to do it. And for some reason I like YUM more then apt-get. However, if you like SUSE, you might want to consider OpenSUSE. Technically, you won't be supporting Novell (at least with money). For the server, I'd suggest either Debian or CentOS. I'm assuming you want the server to be stable and just plain work which is why I suggested those 2. I know that everything I suggested is free, but those are the only decent ones that I can think of besides the non free SUSE and RedHat Enterprise Linux. As far as the filesystem, I've always used ReiserFS on my personal computers and ext3 on my servers. The main reason I use ReiserFS is because SUSE used it by default in previous distro's (my first real Linux experience was with SUSE), however I hear that they've switched to ext3 with the latest distro. As far as with the servers, I use ext3 only because RHEL and CentOS don't allow you to use ReiserFS when installing/partitioning/formatting and I don't feel like doing a completely separate partition step while setting up a server. On Sunday 07 January 2007 4:04 pm, Mike Scott wrote: > I am considering changing Linux distros and wondered what your thoughts > are. I realize that this is a bit like asking which religion is best, > but wanted to get some input. > > I used to use Red Hat, but got tired of having to pay a subscription fee > to easily recieve patches and updates. > > I migrated to SuSe and have been happy for the most part with it's ease > of installation as well as being able to handle my peripherals without > having to go on an easter egg hunt for obscure drivers. > > However, given SuSe's current "deal with the devil" (Microsoft), I can't > in good concience continue to support them and ver 10.1 will be my last > SuSe purchase.. > > I have basically three systems that I would like to run on and all three > have different requirements, so a "one size fits all" approach may not > be the way to go. Since I try to pay for distros that I use > (developers have to eat too), I have no problem paying for three > distros. > > I have a Sony VAIO laptop that I dual-boot between XP (a necessary evil) > and Linux. I need good support for the usual laptop hardware, including > wireless. > > Another is a P4 desktop system with nothing special, though I am > considering buying a DVI video card for the LCD monitor I picked up > last month, but will probably go with ATI on nVidia which seem to be > widely supported. > > Both of the above run GUIs (KDE) and are used for the usual stuff like > word processing, email, web etc. > > The third is a server which I want to use for ripping audio and video > (though the audio will probably be ripped on the desktop box using > ABCDE, and DVDs with whatever tool I get to work, since I didn't have > room for a CD/DVD drive, but may install vid capture cards for MythTV) > as well as general file storage. There is no GUI installed on this > system, but will probably look at something like IceCast and MythTV on > this as well as the SlimServer to run my SqueezeBoxes. This is a dual > Xeon box (2.8G) with a 3Ware RAID card and 8, 250G SATA drives. > > This also brings up another decision as to which filesystem is best for > this. Since I will be dealing with small (FLAC) audio files, as well as > large (MPEG) files, there are pros and cons to each (JFS, EXT3, > ReiserFS). Though that may be a separate thread altogether. > > - Mike Scott From david at midrange.com Sun Jan 7 17:33:13 2007 From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs) Date: Sun Jan 7 17:33:44 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Re: Seen any good distros lately? In-Reply-To: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Mike Scott wrote: > I used to use Red Hat, but got tired of having to pay a subscription fee > to easily recieve patches and updates. I went directly from Redhat 8 to Fedora Core 4 without _too_many_ problems. I used to use slackware, but found the upgrade process to be way too painful ... but that was a long long time ago. Since then I've become quite accustomed to the RPM system, so I've stuck with it. david From sfaci at cs.uic.edu Sun Jan 7 18:28:54 2007 From: sfaci at cs.uic.edu (Samir Faci) Date: Sun Jan 7 18:28:57 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Re: Seen any good distros lately? In-Reply-To: References: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: hmm.. Maybe FC just got a bad reputation.. but the when I first used it... FC1 or FC2 at the time I had a horrible experience with it. Has it gotten any better? My issue with all RPM based distros is that whenever I used any distro... is that it starts out with its core packages and the more I use my system the more custom it gets and the more from source or from 3rd party repos application I add and the less stable my system gets. One reason why I'm using gentoo at the moment is that it tends to provide just about every package and resolve dependencies using just a simple emerge. Of course getting things to work does take a bit more effort, but it does tend to keep on working longer. just my 2cents. -- Samir On 1/7/07, David Gibbs wrote: > Mike Scott wrote: > > I used to use Red Hat, but got tired of having to pay a subscription fee > > to easily recieve patches and updates. > > I went directly from Redhat 8 to Fedora Core 4 without _too_many_ problems. > > I used to use slackware, but found the upgrade process to be way too > painful ... but that was a long long time ago. > > Since then I've become quite accustomed to the RPM system, so I've stuck > with it. > > david > > -- > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni > -- Regards Samir Faci safaci2000@gmail.com Quote: Although, golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing. -- Dave Berry From larry at garfieldtech.com Sun Jan 7 20:19:10 2007 From: larry at garfieldtech.com (Larry Garfield) Date: Sun Jan 7 20:17:10 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Seen any good distros lately? In-Reply-To: <200701071626.20758.skie@dragonsvalley.com> References: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> <200701071626.20758.skie@dragonsvalley.com> Message-ID: <200701072019.10155.larry@garfieldtech.com> On Sunday 07 January 2007 4:26 pm, Branko Kotur wrote: > For the server, I'd suggest either Debian or CentOS. I'm assuming you want > the server to be stable and just plain work which is why I suggested those > 2. I know that everything I suggested is free, but those are the only > decent ones that I can think of besides the non free SUSE and RedHat > Enterprise Linux. Avoid CentOS. We've been trying to run it at work, and it's been very trying. :-) Its SELinux implementation is b0rked to hell, and kept randomly causing Apache to spit out 403 errors for no reason. It also has a kernel bug where periodically an apache process will spiral out of control and eat up a crapload of RAM. When the process is killed, the RAM isn't freed. The total system ram is listed as greater than the sum of free RAM and used RAM, which is quite not good. :-) That's the case even after apache is shut down completely. The kernel simply loses that memory completely until it's rebooted. We're soon to be dumping it and switching to Debian Etch. At home, I used to run Debian Sarge on my server and Sid on my desktop. The hard drive died on the server, though, and the desktop kept breaking random things (it is Unstable, of course), so I've recently moved to Ubuntu-server for the server and Kubuntu for the desktop. The server's been very well-behaved, modulo me following a tutorial for setting up a mail server on 6.06 when I was using 6.10 and there were differences in the way postfix worked between the two. :-) Kubuntu on the desktop has been OK, but with some gotchas. Video didn't work at all until I installed the nvidia binary (I was going to anyway, but I expected the nv driver to at least let me get a desktop). It can't find my Bluetooth adapter for some reason (old D-Link 1.1 USB dongle). And of course you have to run through a few extra steps to get proprietary codecs working because Ubuntu can't package them for legal reasons (down with software patents!). I know someone else, though, for whom Kubuntu 6.10 found everything on his laptop first try, no problem, tastes great less filling, even his broadcom WiFi chip. I've not used an RPM-based system in a half-decade, and haven't missed 'em. Debian/Ubuntu's repositories are so much nicer than RPM hell from 3rd parties. As for filesystems, I don't do anything fancy enough to care about squeezing the last drop of performance out of it, to be honest. I've used ext3 since it came out, and haven't had a problem. Last I looked it also had the best recovery tools, although that may have changed and I've not actually needed them to date. :-) -- Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42 larry@garfieldtech.com ICQ: 6817012 "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it." -- Thomas Jefferson From david at midrange.com Sun Jan 7 20:17:31 2007 From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs) Date: Sun Jan 7 20:17:58 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Re: Seen any good distros lately? In-Reply-To: References: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Samir Faci wrote: > hmm.. Maybe FC just got a bad reputation.. but the when I first used > it... FC1 or FC2 at the time I had a horrible experience with it. Has > it gotten any better? Can't really say ... I never tried FC1 or FC2 ... I started with FC4. I'm in the process of getting upgraded to FC6. My only problems so far is that my media is screwed up. Might be my cdrom drive. > My issue with all RPM based distros is that whenever I used any > distro... is that it starts out with its core packages and the more I > use my system the more custom it gets and the more from source or from > 3rd party repos application I add and the less stable my system gets. I'm usually able to find RPM's for most packages that I want to install. Some packages I leave as manually installed (from tarball) though. Mailman for one ... I don't want it to be upgraded unexpectedly. > One reason why I'm using gentoo at the moment is that it tends to > provide just about every package and resolve dependencies using just a > simple emerge. Of course getting things to work does take a bit more > effort, but it does tend to keep on working longer. Yum seems to be a pretty good job at resolving dependencies. david From skie at dragonsvalley.com Sun Jan 7 20:30:23 2007 From: skie at dragonsvalley.com (Branko Kotur) Date: Sun Jan 7 20:29:30 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Seen any good distros lately? In-Reply-To: <200701072019.10155.larry@garfieldtech.com> References: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> <200701071626.20758.skie@dragonsvalley.com> <200701072019.10155.larry@garfieldtech.com> Message-ID: <200701072030.23985.skie@dragonsvalley.com> On Sunday 07 January 2007 8:19 pm, Larry Garfield wrote: > Avoid CentOS. We've been trying to run it at work, and it's been very > trying. :-) Its SELinux implementation is b0rked to hell, and kept > randomly causing Apache to spit out 403 errors for no reason. It also has > a kernel bug where periodically an apache process will spiral out of > control and eat up a crapload of RAM. When the process is killed, the RAM > isn't freed. The total system ram is listed as greater than the sum of > free RAM and used RAM, which is quite not good. :-) That's the case even > after apache is shut down completely. The kernel simply loses that memory > completely until it's rebooted. We're soon to be dumping it and switching > to Debian Etch. I've never had any problems with CentOS. I've been using CentOS 4.4 for over a month now on 2 fairly active servers without a problem. It's basically RHEL 4, just repackaged without support from RedHat. I've also been using RHEL 3 for about 3 years or so without issues (well, hardware issues only). I don't use SELinux due to all the problems that I've heard from others that use the same specific software that I'm using on my servers. As far as the Apache/kernel memory issues, I haven't see a single hint of something like this. Then again, I don't rely on the distro RPM's for Apache/PHP. From zfhealy at sbcglobal.net Sun Jan 7 18:24:57 2007 From: zfhealy at sbcglobal.net (Francis Healy) Date: Sun Jan 7 20:31:48 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Re: Seen any good distros lately? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <956936.10932.qm@web83211.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I was happy using Red Hat 9, but switched to Debian when Red Hat pulled the plug on Red Hat Linux. I tried Fedora Core 2 but had severe problems with the installation since my linux systems are generally older hardware. Recently I had tried and had sucess with Fedora Core 5, but I am concerned that Fedora Legacy has essentially gone away. Fedora doesn't seem to support releases for very long. I will probably stay with Debian if I can get Nessus 3.0 to run well on Etch when it is released as stable.. Samir Faci wrote: hmm.. Maybe FC just got a bad reputation.. but the when I first used it... FC1 or FC2 at the time I had a horrible experience with it. Has it gotten any better? My issue with all RPM based distros is that whenever I used any distro... is that it starts out with its core packages and the more I use my system the more custom it gets and the more from source or from 3rd party repos application I add and the less stable my system gets. One reason why I'm using gentoo at the moment is that it tends to provide just about every package and resolve dependencies using just a simple emerge. Of course getting things to work does take a bit more effort, but it does tend to keep on working longer. just my 2cents. -- Samir On 1/7/07, David Gibbs wrote: > Mike Scott wrote: > > I used to use Red Hat, but got tired of having to pay a subscription fee > > to easily recieve patches and updates. > > I went directly from Redhat 8 to Fedora Core 4 without _too_many_ problems. > > I used to use slackware, but found the upgrade process to be way too > painful ... but that was a long long time ago. > > Since then I've become quite accustomed to the RPM system, so I've stuck > with it. > > david > > -- > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni > -- Regards Samir Faci safaci2000@gmail.com Quote: Although, golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing. -- Dave Berry -- Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni From mswier at yahoo.com Sun Jan 7 18:38:15 2007 From: mswier at yahoo.com (Mike Swier) Date: Sun Jan 7 20:38:36 2007 Subject: [LUNI] ANN: NWCLUG's next meeting 1/9/07 Message-ID: <20070108023815.20705.qmail@web57004.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi, NWCLUG's next meeting will be at Harper College in A238 at 7pm on Tuesday 1/9/07. For (a bit) more info see http://nwclug.org/httpd/html/meetings.html#nextmtg mikie -- Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Announcements Mailing List http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni-announce From mscott at pyewacket.org Sun Jan 7 20:13:31 2007 From: mscott at pyewacket.org (Mike Scott) Date: Sun Jan 7 21:13:35 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Re: Seen any good distros lately? Message-ID: <20070107201330.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.6f1d44322f.wbe@email.secureserver.net> One thing I like about SuSe is YAST. I had too many trips into RPM "dependency hell" with 'Hat and don't relish the thought of going back down that road. - Mike Scott > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [LUNI] Re: Seen any good distros lately? > From: "Samir Faci" > Date: Sun, January 07, 2007 6:28 pm > To: "Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion" > > > hmm.. Maybe FC just got a bad reputation.. but the when I first used > it... FC1 or FC2 at the time I had a horrible experience with it. Has > it gotten any better? > > My issue with all RPM based distros is that whenever I used any > distro... is that it starts out with its core packages and the more I > use my system the more custom it gets and the more from source or from > 3rd party repos application I add and the less stable my system gets. > > One reason why I'm using gentoo at the moment is that it tends to > provide just about every package and resolve dependencies using just a > simple emerge. Of course getting things to work does take a bit more > effort, but it does tend to keep on working longer. > > just my 2cents. > > -- > Samir > > On 1/7/07, David Gibbs wrote: > > Mike Scott wrote: > > > I used to use Red Hat, but got tired of having to pay a subscription fee > > > to easily recieve patches and updates. > > > > I went directly from Redhat 8 to Fedora Core 4 without _too_many_ problems. > > > > I used to use slackware, but found the upgrade process to be way too > > painful ... but that was a long long time ago. > > > > Since then I've become quite accustomed to the RPM system, so I've stuck > > with it. > > > > david > > > > -- > > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni > > > > > -- > Regards > Samir Faci > safaci2000@gmail.com > Quote: Although, golf was originally restricted to wealthy, > overweight protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous > clothing. > -- Dave Berry > -- > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni From mscott at pyewacket.org Sun Jan 7 20:19:39 2007 From: mscott at pyewacket.org (Mike Scott) Date: Sun Jan 7 21:19:41 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Seen any good distros lately? Message-ID: <20070107201939.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.da155f5e32.wbe@email.secureserver.net> > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [LUNI] Seen any good distros lately? > From: Larry Garfield > Date: Sun, January 07, 2007 8:19 pm > To: Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > > At home, I used to run Debian Sarge on my server and Sid on my desktop. The Does Debian still install the 2.4 kernel? The Sarge build their latest stable and is a bit dated (June 2005 if memory serves). > hard drive died on the server, though, and the desktop kept breaking random > things (it is Unstable, of course), so I've recently moved to Ubuntu-server > for the server and Kubuntu for the desktop. The server's been very Tried U/Kubuntu on my laptop and couldn't get the wireless card to connect with either one. It recognized the card and all, gust didn't want to authenticate with my AP. - Mike Scott From larry at garfieldtech.com Sun Jan 7 22:02:42 2007 From: larry at garfieldtech.com (Larry Garfield) Date: Sun Jan 7 22:00:51 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Seen any good distros lately? In-Reply-To: <20070107201939.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.da155f5e32.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20070107201939.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.da155f5e32.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <200701072202.42195.larry@garfieldtech.com> On Sunday 07 January 2007 9:19 pm, Mike Scott wrote: > > At home, I used to run Debian Sarge on my server and Sid on my desktop. > > The > > Does Debian still install the 2.4 kernel? > The Sarge build their latest stable and is a bit dated (June 2005 if > memory serves). Sarge installs a 2.4 kernel unless you select linux26 as the install command, then it installs 2.6.8, I think. (Yes, 2.6.8 was nastily broken. Not sure if they ever changed that in later point releases.) Etch (soon to be stable) is 2.6.x only. (I don't know which kernel off hand.) > Tried U/Kubuntu on my laptop and couldn't get the wireless card to > connect with either one. > It recognized the card and all, gust didn't want to authenticate with my > AP. > > - Mike Scott I've had that problem as well with Linksys APs. I replaced one with a D-Link (I think it was) and it started working, WEP and everything. -- Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42 larry@garfieldtech.com ICQ: 6817012 "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it." -- Thomas Jefferson From skie at dragonsvalley.com Sun Jan 7 22:03:05 2007 From: skie at dragonsvalley.com (Branko Kotur) Date: Sun Jan 7 22:02:11 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Re: Seen any good distros lately? In-Reply-To: <20070107201330.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.6f1d44322f.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20070107201330.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.6f1d44322f.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <200701072203.06027.skie@dragonsvalley.com> On Sunday 07 January 2007 9:13 pm, Mike Scott wrote: > One thing I like about SuSe is YAST. I had too many trips into RPM > "dependency hell" with 'Hat and don't relish the thought of going back > down that road. > > - Mike Scott YUM will take care of dependencies just like apt-get/emerge do. Although some people complain about it being slow, I haven't had any issues with it. YUM is basically the apt-get of the RPM world. From zfhealy at sbcglobal.net Sun Jan 7 20:17:40 2007 From: zfhealy at sbcglobal.net (Francis Healy) Date: Sun Jan 7 22:18:02 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Seen any good distros lately? In-Reply-To: <20070107201939.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.da155f5e32.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <605415.79825.qm@web83208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Mike Scott wrote: > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: Re: [LUNI] Seen any good distros lately? > > From: Larry Garfield > > Date: Sun, January 07, 2007 8:19 pm > > To: Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical > Discussion > > > > At home, I used to run Debian Sarge on my server > and Sid on my desktop. The > > Does Debian still install the 2.4 kernel? > The Sarge build their latest stable and is a bit > dated (June 2005 if > memory serves). You can build it either way. I build my early sarge boxes with 2.4 because they ran better. 2.6 has better hardware detection and has become much more stable over time. > > hard drive died on the server, though, and the > desktop kept breaking random > > things (it is Unstable, of course), so I've > recently moved to Ubuntu-server > > for the server and Kubuntu for the desktop. The > server's been very > > Tried U/Kubuntu on my laptop and couldn't get the > wireless card to > connect with either one. > It recognized the card and all, gust didn't want to > authenticate with my > AP. > I have never had much luck with wireless on Linux. The best I ever had was with RedHat 9 on a dell laptop that worked pretty much out of the box with an orinoco card. > - Mike Scott > > -- > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical > Discussion > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni > From joshua.mcadams at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 22:54:22 2007 From: joshua.mcadams at gmail.com (Joshua McAdams) Date: Sun Jan 7 22:54:25 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Fwd: Chicago.pm Meeting - 16th January 2007 - Catalyst, The Elegant MVC Web Framework In-Reply-To: <49d805d70701071013y7610aca0jd43385594e493698@mail.gmail.com> References: <49d805d70701071013y7610aca0jd43385594e493698@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49d805d70701072054m22d3b789s994f1af76117d973@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Chicago.pm Meeting - 16th January 2007 - Catalyst, The Elegant MVC Web Framework To: "Chicago.pm chatter" , chicago-announce@mail.pm.org Join Chicago.pm on January 16th for an evening of Catalyst, a modern framework for making web applications without the pain usually associated with web development. Jonathan Rockway will be talking in-depth about developing Catalyst applications, a topic that he knows very well. He is a contributor to Catalyst, maintains numerous Catalyst plug-ins, and is rumored to be writing a book on the subject. Date: Tuesday January 16th 2007 Time: 7:00 p.m. Where: Performics @ 180 N La Salle 12th Floor RSVP: By noon January 15th to joshua.mcadams+20070116@gmail.com The official meeting starts at 7, but there is talk of a group getting together before (or after) for a social. You guys can nail down the details on that :) Also, don't forget the Chicago.pm meeting to be held this Tuesday January 9th at IIT in Wheaton. Andy Lester, Pete Krawzcyk, and myself each have each picked four modules to present in a session called "New Modules For The New Year". Check out http://chicago.pm.org/ for more information. See you there, Josh * BTW, I still have a few Perl Mongers t-shirts to distribute to people. I'll be bringing them to each of these meetings, so try to be there if you are still without your shirts! From mlabowicz at gmail.com Sun Jan 7 23:08:55 2007 From: mlabowicz at gmail.com (Michael Labowicz) Date: Sun Jan 7 23:08:59 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Seen any good distros lately? In-Reply-To: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Hi Mike, I know there have been a lot of Debian and Ubuntu mentions in the responses to your post. I would like to add another... I currently use Debian Etch in 3 computers at my house (workstation, laptop and mediabox/DVR), all of them use the same repository and packages, which are fairly up to date and stable. I used to use Redhat, but got sick of it because of the paid updates and RPM dependency hell... Regards, -- Michael Labowicz http://www.labowicz.com/blog/ On 1/7/07, Mike Scott wrote: > > I am considering changing Linux distros and wondered what your thoughts > are. I realize that this is a bit like asking which religion is best, > but wanted to get some input. > > I used to use Red Hat, but got tired of having to pay a subscription fee > to easily recieve patches and updates. > > I migrated to SuSe and have been happy for the most part with it's ease > of installation as well as being able to handle my peripherals without > having to go on an easter egg hunt for obscure drivers. > > However, given SuSe's current "deal with the devil" (Microsoft), I can't > in good concience continue to support them and ver 10.1 will be my last > SuSe purchase.. > > I have basically three systems that I would like to run on and all three > have different requirements, so a "one size fits all" approach may not > be the way to go. Since I try to pay for distros that I use > (developers have to eat too), I have no problem paying for three > distros. > > I have a Sony VAIO laptop that I dual-boot between XP (a necessary evil) > and Linux. I need good support for the usual laptop hardware, including > wireless. > > Another is a P4 desktop system with nothing special, though I am > considering buying a DVI video card for the LCD monitor I picked up > last month, but will probably go with ATI on nVidia which seem to be > widely supported. > > Both of the above run GUIs (KDE) and are used for the usual stuff like > word processing, email, web etc. > > The third is a server which I want to use for ripping audio and video > (though the audio will probably be ripped on the desktop box using > ABCDE, and DVDs with whatever tool I get to work, since I didn't have > room for a CD/DVD drive, but may install vid capture cards for MythTV) > as well as general file storage. There is no GUI installed on this > system, but will probably look at something like IceCast and MythTV on > this as well as the SlimServer to run my SqueezeBoxes. This is a dual > Xeon box (2.8G) with a 3Ware RAID card and 8, 250G SATA drives. > > This also brings up another decision as to which filesystem is best for > this. Since I will be dealing with small (FLAC) audio files, as well as > large (MPEG) files, there are pros and cons to each (JFS, EXT3, > ReiserFS). Though that may be a separate thread altogether. > > - Mike Scott > > -- > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni > From trev at advanced-reality.com Sun Jan 7 22:55:50 2007 From: trev at advanced-reality.com (Trev Peterson) Date: Sun Jan 7 23:17:13 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Seen any good distros lately? In-Reply-To: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1168232150.6982.13.camel@aegir.advanced-reality.com> The distribution you choose depends on what your requirements are. Below are some requirements and likely distributions that may meet your needs: Commercial/proprietary software that releases as only binary blobs then you may be limited to Red Hat or SUSE as supported OSes. This can be apps, drivers (easier installation), or hardware tools such as raid management software (Adaptec, Dell anyone). For most fairly basic web/mail/network servers I recommend Debian Etch for your server (normally Debian stable but Etch will go stable very soon so it is probably your best bet). For most standard (not a lot of very odd apps) desktops I recommend ubuntu as it upgrades easy and is pretty polished. If you need some apps that are "off the beaten path" and you are somewhat technical or want to learn then Gentoo is a good choice. Hope this helps. Trev On Sun, 2007-01-07 at 15:04 -0700, Mike Scott wrote: > I am considering changing Linux distros and wondered what your thoughts > are. I realize that this is a bit like asking which religion is best, > but wanted to get some input. > > I used to use Red Hat, but got tired of having to pay a subscription fee > to easily recieve patches and updates. > > I migrated to SuSe and have been happy for the most part with it's ease > of installation as well as being able to handle my peripherals without > having to go on an easter egg hunt for obscure drivers. > > However, given SuSe's current "deal with the devil" (Microsoft), I can't > in good concience continue to support them and ver 10.1 will be my last > SuSe purchase.. > > I have basically three systems that I would like to run on and all three > have different requirements, so a "one size fits all" approach may not > be the way to go. Since I try to pay for distros that I use > (developers have to eat too), I have no problem paying for three > distros. > > I have a Sony VAIO laptop that I dual-boot between XP (a necessary evil) > and Linux. I need good support for the usual laptop hardware, including > wireless. > > Another is a P4 desktop system with nothing special, though I am > considering buying a DVI video card for the LCD monitor I picked up > last month, but will probably go with ATI on nVidia which seem to be > widely supported. > > Both of the above run GUIs (KDE) and are used for the usual stuff like > word processing, email, web etc. > > The third is a server which I want to use for ripping audio and video > (though the audio will probably be ripped on the desktop box using > ABCDE, and DVDs with whatever tool I get to work, since I didn't have > room for a CD/DVD drive, but may install vid capture cards for MythTV) > as well as general file storage. There is no GUI installed on this > system, but will probably look at something like IceCast and MythTV on > this as well as the SlimServer to run my SqueezeBoxes. This is a dual > Xeon box (2.8G) with a 3Ware RAID card and 8, 250G SATA drives. > > This also brings up another decision as to which filesystem is best for > this. Since I will be dealing with small (FLAC) audio files, as well as > large (MPEG) files, there are pros and cons to each (JFS, EXT3, > ReiserFS). Though that may be a separate thread altogether. > > - Mike Scott > -- Trev Peterson Advanced Reality From trev at advanced-reality.com Mon Jan 8 00:01:12 2007 From: trev at advanced-reality.com (Trev Peterson) Date: Mon Jan 8 00:00:21 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Seen any good distros lately? In-Reply-To: <200701072030.23985.skie@dragonsvalley.com> References: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> <200701071626.20758.skie@dragonsvalley.com> <200701072019.10155.larry@garfieldtech.com> <200701072030.23985.skie@dragonsvalley.com> Message-ID: <1168236072.6982.62.camel@aegir.advanced-reality.com> I have been maintaining a few CentOS 4.4 servers for a client for the last 6 months. In that time we've had the following problems: 1. SELinux is broken on CentOS4.4 and it is on by default (very bad choice). There are many reasons I say this and if you are interested in a list let me know. 2. As Larry mentioned the Apache package leaks memory (severely in some instances). 3. Auto-updates break on dependency hell (yes we are using yum and it still is unable to reliably update). This has happened twice in the first 3 months I was maintaining the servers. Both times it left the packages in a state that required considerable manual intervention to correct (read more than 1 - 2 hours). Choosing Sendmail and Bind as the default mail and DNS servers make it even more important to regularly update your system. 4. Limited packages and configurations results in much more software maintained outside the package management system. This adds to increased support time/cost and even more upgrade headaches. Compared to the Debian and even Gentoo servers the CentOS servers require a lot more babysitting and have a lot more gotchas. It seems you have used CentOS enough to work around some of the problems (disable SELinux, compile Apache from source, etc.) All things being equal I recommend Debian to CentOS as I find it to have lower admin costs and higher reliability. On Sun, 2007-01-07 at 20:30 -0600, Branko Kotur wrote: > I've never had any problems with CentOS. I've been using CentOS 4.4 for over > a month now on 2 fairly active servers without a problem. It's basically > RHEL 4, just repackaged without support from RedHat. I've also been using > RHEL 3 for about 3 years or so without issues (well, hardware issues only). > I don't use SELinux due to all the problems that I've heard from others that > use the same specific software that I'm using on my servers. As far as the > Apache/kernel memory issues, I haven't see a single hint of something like > this. Then again, I don't rely on the distro RPM's for Apache/PHP. -- Trev Peterson Advanced Reality From maney at two14.net Mon Jan 8 00:15:00 2007 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Mon Jan 8 00:15:12 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Seen any good distros lately? In-Reply-To: <20070107201939.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.da155f5e32.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20070107201939.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.da155f5e32.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <20070108061500.GA23646@furrr.two14.net> On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 at 08:19:39PM -0700, Mike Scott wrote: > Does Debian still install the 2.4 kernel? Sarge *could* install either, though you had to ask for 2.6 if you wanted to get it in the initial install. IIRC Etch is all 2.6. > The Sarge build their latest stable and is a bit dated (June 2005 if > memory serves). Depends on what you want. I can't imagine living with the frequent version churn of Fedora, in part because my perception has always been that version upgrades of RH tend to be excessively exciting. For servers, I prefer the peaceful stability of Debian's more stately progress (though the next generation may well end up with Ubuntu 6.06 - that's how it's looking at the moment, anyway). That same slow but stable gait did get a bit annoying on desktops, and those are all Ubuntu (still 6.06) here these days. My hands-on laptop experience has been limited to one older Dell (I8000) on which Ubuntu has worked splendily since, IIRC, its first release. Well, maybe a bit less splendily at first, but to me the laptop is what you use when a real computer isn't convenient, so I'd never developed great expectations. :-) > Tried U/Kubuntu on my laptop and couldn't get the wireless card to > connect with either one. It recognized the card and all, gust didn't > want to authenticate with my AP. Laptops have amazingly variable milage. :-( -- In the details, the lovely details, the devil sleeps tonight! From skie at dragonsvalley.com Mon Jan 8 00:09:55 2007 From: skie at dragonsvalley.com (Branko Kotur) Date: Mon Jan 8 00:16:09 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Seen any good distros lately? In-Reply-To: <1168236072.6982.62.camel@aegir.advanced-reality.com> References: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> <200701072030.23985.skie@dragonsvalley.com> <1168236072.6982.62.camel@aegir.advanced-reality.com> Message-ID: <200701080009.56002.skie@dragonsvalley.com> On Monday 08 January 2007 12:01 am, Trev Peterson wrote: > I have been maintaining a few CentOS 4.4 servers for a client for the > last 6 months. In that time we've had the following problems: > > 1. SELinux is broken on CentOS4.4 and it is on by default (very bad > choice). There are many reasons I say this and if you are interested in > a list let me know. > > 2. As Larry mentioned the Apache package leaks memory (severely in some > instances). > > 3. Auto-updates break on dependency hell (yes we are using yum and it > still is unable to reliably update). This has happened twice in the > first 3 months I was maintaining the servers. Both times it left the > packages in a state that required considerable manual intervention to > correct (read more than 1 - 2 hours). Choosing Sendmail and Bind as the > default mail and DNS servers make it even more important to regularly > update your system. > > 4. Limited packages and configurations results in much more software > maintained outside the package management system. This adds to > increased support time/cost and even more upgrade headaches. > > Compared to the Debian and even Gentoo servers the CentOS servers > require a lot more babysitting and have a lot more gotchas. It seems > you have used CentOS enough to work around some of the problems (disable > SELinux, compile Apache from source, etc.) > > All things being equal I recommend Debian to CentOS as I find it to have > lower admin costs and higher reliability. > I guess my needs are a bit different then yours. I have a very basic install of CentOS (just the core functionality). I basically unchecked everything except 1 or 2 items during install (I used the Server Only CD instead of the 4 CD's that are offered). Everything that runs on it (httpd, bind, etc) was compiled. Unfortunately, the main reason I'm sticking with CentOS is because some of the software I'm using doesn't work very well on Debian. It's best supported on RHEL and CentOS. Would RHEL 4 have the same problems as CentOS 4 since they're basically the same? Or do the CentOS guys change things here and there? From trev at advanced-reality.com Mon Jan 8 00:45:54 2007 From: trev at advanced-reality.com (Trev Peterson) Date: Mon Jan 8 00:45:02 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Seen any good distros lately? In-Reply-To: <200701080009.56002.skie@dragonsvalley.com> References: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> <200701072030.23985.skie@dragonsvalley.com> <1168236072.6982.62.camel@aegir.advanced-reality.com> <200701080009.56002.skie@dragonsvalley.com> Message-ID: <1168238754.6982.99.camel@aegir.advanced-reality.com> Yes, that is why I said all things being equal :) Often software requires you run Red Hat (or Suse) which makes choosing a distro much easier. I suspect some of the problems are CentOS specific (update failures, possibly the apache issue) but it has been a little while since I supported any RH servers so can't say for sure. I'm pretty sure RHEL has SELinux problems and I know the package limitations are there. On Mon, 2007-01-08 at 00:09 -0600, Branko Kotur wrote: > Unfortunately, the main reason I'm sticking with CentOS is because some of the > software I'm using doesn't work very well on Debian. It's best supported on > RHEL and CentOS. Would RHEL 4 have the same problems as CentOS 4 since > they're basically the same? Or do the CentOS guys change things here and > there? -- Trev Peterson Advanced Reality From knura at yahoo.com Mon Jan 8 14:20:08 2007 From: knura at yahoo.com (Arun K. Khan) Date: Mon Jan 8 03:45:19 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Seen any good distros lately? In-Reply-To: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <1168246208.4697.8.camel@genesis.intra.silverarc.biz> On Sun, 2007-01-07 at 15:04 -0700, Mike Scott wrote: > I used to use Red Hat, but got tired of having to pay a subscription fee > to easily recieve patches and updates. Are you referring to RHEL? > However, given SuSe's current "deal with the devil" (Microsoft), I can't > in good concience continue to support them and ver 10.1 will be my last > SuSe purchase.. Debian GNU/Linux - it has no commercial encumbrances; it is created/maintained by a world wide a community of volunteers. It has the largest repo of software. It can be configured for all the three scenarios you mention in your post. HTH, akk From steven.mcgrath at chigeek.com Mon Jan 8 15:57:08 2007 From: steven.mcgrath at chigeek.com (Steven McGrath) Date: Mon Jan 8 15:57:16 2007 Subject: [LUNI] ChiSUG January Meeting Message-ID: <28326b7c0701081357o2c1135dfm78f8d2b819feb637@mail.gmail.com> Happy New Year ChiSUG members -- it looks like we get to start 2007 with a bang. For our January meeting, noted security researcher and consultant, Raven Alder, will present to the Chicago Snort Users Group Secure your spot now by sending your name (for security check-in) to: rwagner [a t] transunion {d o t} com. Don't keep the pig all to yourselves ? pass this invite on to other security minded peers (no loose cannons, please). Details Who: Raven Alder What: "Managing Snort in a Large Environment" When: Thursday, January 18th at 5:00 PM. Where: Nexum, Inc. 190 S. LaSalle St. Chicago, IL From jeff at gerhardt.org Sun Jan 7 22:54:40 2007 From: jeff at gerhardt.org (jeff@gerhardt.org) Date: Mon Jan 8 17:27:31 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Like Bots, Like Linux In-Reply-To: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <20070108045441.460EC47FEF@k2.ibssnet.com> I am running a US First Robotics team in Chicago. It is comprised of students from Whitney Young, North Side Prep and Lane tech. We could use some adult engineering mentors. If you have at least one afternoon/evening (from 4 to 9) a week available and are interested in robotics please contact me. We could really use some coders comfortable with Linux. Jeff gerhardt jeff@gerhardt.org From jeff at gerhardt.org Sun Jan 7 22:49:26 2007 From: jeff at gerhardt.org (jeff@gerhardt.org) Date: Mon Jan 8 17:27:32 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Re: Seen any good distros lately? Scientific Linux In-Reply-To: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <20070108044927.9E0DB47FF3@k2.ibssnet.com> Scientific Linux from Fermi Labs From netfortius at gmail.com Mon Jan 8 07:15:20 2007 From: netfortius at gmail.com (Netfortius) Date: Mon Jan 8 17:27:34 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Re: Seen any good distros lately? In-Reply-To: <20070107201330.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.6f1d44322f.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20070107201330.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.6f1d44322f.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <200701080715.20388.netfortius@gmail.com> On Sunday 07 January 2007 21:13, Mike Scott wrote: > One thing I like about SuSe is YAST. I had too many trips into RPM > "dependency hell" with 'Hat and don't relish the thought of going back > down that road. > > - Mike Scott Hasn't been mentioned here - yet - so here it is: before having switched to MacOSX on my laptops, a few years back, I used to have great success w/Mandrake as linux distro, on mobile systems (Toshiba, Dell and IBM). Their urpmi tool was better than YAST, and it was the only Linux distro which installed right of the box on those systems. Finding update sites (including the PLF ones!) was also very easy, via: http://easyurpmi.zarb.org/ I am not sure how their 2007 is, but it may be worth a try ?!? Stefan From zfhealy at sbcglobal.net Mon Jan 8 18:30:09 2007 From: zfhealy at sbcglobal.net (Francis Healy) Date: Mon Jan 8 20:30:26 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Encrypted file systems Message-ID: <473693.4423.qm@web83210.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I currently use a Windows XP/Linux dual boot laptop. My company will likely begin to require encryption on laptop systems. I have built a few etch systems and noticed that it offers encryption as an option in the setup. My company uses PGP for encryption on Windows laptops. Has anyone tried disk encryption on a dual boot setup? From dev at anabasis.net Mon Jan 8 23:13:18 2007 From: dev at anabasis.net (Lawrence Weeks) Date: Mon Jan 8 23:32:47 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Re: Seen any good distros lately? In-Reply-To: <1168236072.6982.62.camel@aegir.advanced-reality.com> <200701072019.10155.larry@garfieldtech.com> References: <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> <200701071626.20758.skie@dragonsvalley.com> <200701072019.10155.larry@garfieldtech.com> <200701072030.23985.skie@dragonsvalley.com> <1168236072.6982.62.camel@aegir.advanced-reality.com> <20070107150416.6095274834031e3691077dcdffae0724.b961168ebc.wbe@email.secureserver.net> <200701071626.20758.skie@dragonsvalley.com> <200701072019.10155.larry@garfieldtech.com> Message-ID: <20070109051318.GA23492@dm2.deskmedia.com> Once upon a time (Sun Jan 07), Larry Garfield wrote: > On Sunday 07 January 2007 4:26 pm, Branko Kotur wrote: > Avoid CentOS. We've been trying to run it at work, and it's been very > trying. :-) Its SELinux implementation is b0rked to hell, and kept randomly > causing Apache to spit out 403 errors for no reason. It also has a kernel > bug where periodically an apache process will spiral out of control and eat > up a crapload of RAM. [ ... ] Once upon a time (Mon Jan 08), Trev Peterson wrote: > I have been maintaining a few CentOS 4.4 servers for a client for the > last 6 months. In that time we've had the following problems: > 1. SELinux is broken on CentOS4.4 and it is on by default (very bad > choice). There are many reasons I say this and if you are interested in > a list let me know. > 2. As Larry mentioned the Apache package leaks memory (severely in some > instances). > 3. Auto-updates break on dependency hell (yes we are using yum and it > still is unable to reliably update). This has happened twice in the > first 3 months I was maintaining the servers. Both times it left the > packages in a state that required considerable manual intervention to > correct (read more than 1 - 2 hours). Choosing Sendmail and Bind as the > default mail and DNS servers make it even more important to regularly > update your system. I have CentOS installed on at least a dozen servers, both in small business and an ISP environment running many, many virtual domains. I have never seen a single one of these problems, save issues with SELinux, which is now turned off immediately. We use distro Apache, and BIND, and a combination of distro Postfix and latest-n-greatest Postfix. I have all machines up to date with yum, and haven't had a single issue of OS related instability, nor an issue of being unable to update. I just checked serveral servers to make sure, and the httpd processes (both init spawned and children) on none are very large in resident or virtual. The oldest I saw goes back to Sep 28, process sizes no larger than 20M. I'm not disputing your experiences, but I haven't seen any of that in production. > 4. Limited packages and configurations results in much more software > maintained outside the package management system. This adds to > increased support time/cost and even more upgrade headaches. I will grant you this. It includes only what the base RHEL includes. However, I don't find this too much of a concern. The base OS will be stable for years, and RedHat back-ports patches. For packages for which we want more recent revisions we compile and install, compile RPMs from the package when they support it (lots do), and roll our own RPMs when justified. Larry -- Lawrence Weeks lweeks@anabasis.net Anabasis Consulting Ltd From brian at planetshwoop.com Tue Jan 9 00:22:31 2007 From: brian at planetshwoop.com (Brian Sobolak) Date: Tue Jan 9 00:20:59 2007 Subject: [LUNI] ANN: This Thursday is a UFO Thursday! Message-ID: <45A334A7.9090407@planetshwoop.com> This Thursday the member of UFO-Chicago will gather at the Lodge House (4229 W. Irving Park) for lively conversation about Linux and other open-source projects and programs. We get started at 8pm and the meeting is free and open to all. For more details and directions, please check out our website: http://ufo.chicago.il.us/ brian -- Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Announcements Mailing List http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni-announce From scott at cashnetusa.com Tue Jan 9 21:05:32 2007 From: scott at cashnetusa.com (Scott Lockwood) Date: Tue Jan 9 21:33:10 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Sendmail setup guide? Message-ID: <1168398332.5831.1.camel@scott-640m> I'm looking for a good guide to setting up sendmail with smtp auth, and tls on Ubuntu. Google hasn't yeilded much in a cursory search, so I figured I'd ask here before reinventing the wheel. From sfaci at cs.uic.edu Tue Jan 9 22:06:36 2007 From: sfaci at cs.uic.edu (Samir Faci) Date: Tue Jan 9 22:06:39 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Sendmail setup guide? In-Reply-To: <1168398332.5831.1.camel@scott-640m> References: <1168398332.5831.1.camel@scott-640m> Message-ID: Before I answer, any particular reason you'd like to use sendmail over postfix or qmail or any other mail server? -- Samir On 1/9/07, Scott Lockwood wrote: > I'm looking for a good guide to setting up sendmail with smtp auth, and > tls on Ubuntu. Google hasn't yeilded much in a cursory search, so I > figured I'd ask here before reinventing the wheel. > > -- > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni > -- Regards Samir Faci safaci2000@gmail.com Quote: Although, golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing. -- Dave Berry From scott at cashnetusa.com Tue Jan 9 22:16:06 2007 From: scott at cashnetusa.com (Scott Lockwood) Date: Tue Jan 9 22:16:19 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Sendmail setup guide? In-Reply-To: References: <1168398332.5831.1.camel@scott-640m> Message-ID: <1168402566.5831.26.camel@scott-640m> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 22:06 -0600, Samir Faci wrote: > Before I answer, any particular reason you'd like to use sendmail over > postfix or qmail or any other mail server? > > -- > Samir Well, mostly because it's what I've always used, but also because it's what we have installed on quite a number of hosts already. I'm certainly open to the idea of eventually migrating away from it, but it's just not realistic to do so, right now. From me at heyjay.com Tue Jan 9 22:23:26 2007 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Tue Jan 9 22:23:30 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Recommendations for CoLo or Hosting Message-ID: Hi, I need to run an Oracle database, Apache, and Perl (and many perl modules). I currently have a T1 into my basement, but for various reasons would like to move it somewhere safer, with a faster (maybe redundant) internet connection, clean and backed up power source... My current T1 runs me about $300/mo for a 768/768 Can anyone recommend an inexpensive colo facility? Ideally one that wouldn't require me to have a rack mountable server. Would a hosting service let me install Oracle? If so, any recommendations? Thanks Jay From scott at cashnetusa.com Tue Jan 9 22:32:28 2007 From: scott at cashnetusa.com (Scott Lockwood) Date: Tue Jan 9 22:32:36 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Recommendations for CoLo or Hosting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1168403548.5831.29.camel@scott-640m> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 22:23 -0600, Jay Strauss wrote: > Hi, > > I need to run an Oracle database, Apache, and Perl (and many perl > modules). I currently have a T1 into my basement, but for various > reasons would like to move it somewhere safer, with a faster (maybe > redundant) internet connection, clean and backed up power source... > > My current T1 runs me about $300/mo for a 768/768 > > Can anyone recommend an inexpensive colo facility? Ideally one that > wouldn't require me to have a rack mountable server. > > Would a hosting service let me install Oracle? If so, any recommendations? > > Thanks > Jay I have had really excellent luck with John Companies (http://johncompanies.com/) It's mostly a VPS shop, but they will host a server for you, or set one up. Be aware, they're in San Diego, so it's not local. YMMV of course. From skie at dragonsvalley.com Tue Jan 9 23:24:17 2007 From: skie at dragonsvalley.com (Branko Kotur) Date: Tue Jan 9 23:30:09 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Recommendations for CoLo or Hosting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200701092324.17745.skie@dragonsvalley.com> For colo, I'm currently using steadfast.net in Chicago. They do allow tower servers, but they price is more then for rackmount servers. Otherwise, if you get a cheap dedicated server or perhaps even a VPS, you would have root access to the server/virtual server and can then install what you want. However, I don't know of any specific hosting company that offers Oracle. On Tuesday 09 January 2007 10:23 pm, Jay Strauss wrote: > Hi, > > I need to run an Oracle database, Apache, and Perl (and many perl > modules). I currently have a T1 into my basement, but for various > reasons would like to move it somewhere safer, with a faster (maybe > redundant) internet connection, clean and backed up power source... > > My current T1 runs me about $300/mo for a 768/768 > > Can anyone recommend an inexpensive colo facility? Ideally one that > wouldn't require me to have a rack mountable server. > > Would a hosting service let me install Oracle? If so, any recommendations? > > Thanks > Jay From sfaci at cs.uic.edu Tue Jan 9 23:38:40 2007 From: sfaci at cs.uic.edu (Samir Faci) Date: Tue Jan 9 23:38:43 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Sendmail setup guide? In-Reply-To: <1168406231.5831.33.camel@scott-640m> References: <1168398332.5831.1.camel@scott-640m> <1168406231.5831.33.camel@scott-640m> Message-ID: Scott, Well... I've never used sendmail honestly, there would have been a few postfix howtos I would have pointed you to, but as far as mailservers go, sendmail seems to always have been associated with horror stories. It could be a bad stereotype, but never saw the need to over complicate things, when postfix seemed to work just fine. for postfix, I'd just google postfix gentoo and there are a ton of guides out there.. both wiki and official. (or substitute gentoo for your fav distro, though it seems to me that gentoo and unbuntu have the better forums these days) -- Samir On 1/9/07, Scott Lockwood wrote: > I'd still very much like to hear your answer. :-) > > On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 22:06 -0600, Samir Faci wrote: > > Before I answer, any particular reason you'd like to use sendmail over > > postfix or qmail or any other mail server? > > > > -- > > Samir > > > > On 1/9/07, Scott Lockwood wrote: > > > I'm looking for a good guide to setting up sendmail with smtp auth, and > > > tls on Ubuntu. Google hasn't yeilded much in a cursory search, so I > > > figured I'd ask here before reinventing the wheel. > > > > > > -- > > > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > > > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni > > > > > > > > > -- > > Regards > > Samir Faci > > safaci2000@gmail.com > > Quote: Although, golf was originally restricted to wealthy, > > overweight protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous > > clothing. > > -- Dave Berry > > -- Regards Samir Faci safaci2000@gmail.com Quote: Although, golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing. -- Dave Berry From ramin-list at badapple.net Tue Jan 9 22:06:28 2007 From: ramin-list at badapple.net (Ramin K) Date: Wed Jan 10 00:06:25 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Sendmail setup guide? In-Reply-To: <1168398332.5831.1.camel@scott-640m> References: <1168398332.5831.1.camel@scott-640m> Message-ID: <45A48264.7070209@badapple.net> Scott Lockwood wrote: > I'm looking for a good guide to setting up sendmail with smtp auth, and > tls on Ubuntu. Google hasn't yeilded much in a cursory search, so I > figured I'd ask here before reinventing the wheel. > http://www.howtoforge.com/howto_sendmail_smtp_auth_tls Build from scratch, looks annoying. http://www.adap.org/~edsel/blog/archives/48 less building and more letting the distro handle the dirty work. This is the one I'd use assuming Debian 3.1 resembles your Ubuntu. For the record Postfix is my favorite MTA and anyone recommending qmail these days needs a good kick in the head. Ramin From ramin-list at badapple.net Tue Jan 9 22:36:12 2007 From: ramin-list at badapple.net (Ramin K) Date: Wed Jan 10 00:36:12 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Sendmail setup guide? In-Reply-To: <45A48264.7070209@badapple.net> References: <1168398332.5831.1.camel@scott-640m> <45A48264.7070209@badapple.net> Message-ID: <45A4895C.4090505@badapple.net> Ramin K wrote: > For the record Postfix is my favorite MTA and anyone recommending qmail > these days needs a good kick in the head. Just to clarify that I'm not picking on Samir as he's a nice guy, but qmail is complete and total crap. I find it odd that it's still held in high regard, though it was the bees knees back in '99, when it is so clearly dead and Sendmail, Exim, and Postfix are so much better and capable at this point in time. Ramin From sfaci at cs.uic.edu Wed Jan 10 01:47:55 2007 From: sfaci at cs.uic.edu (Samir Faci) Date: Wed Jan 10 01:47:59 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Sendmail setup guide? In-Reply-To: <45A4895C.4090505@badapple.net> References: <1168398332.5831.1.camel@scott-640m> <45A48264.7070209@badapple.net> <45A4895C.4090505@badapple.net> Message-ID: lol.. I actually agree with that... I tried using it since the guy who wrote it is at UIC, but couldn't make myself like it.. too patchy.. (not that i spent more then a week on it before getting frustrated) just mentioned it since that's one of the two main ones that popped to mind. -- Samir On 1/10/07, Ramin K wrote: > Ramin K wrote: > > For the record Postfix is my favorite MTA and anyone recommending qmail > > these days needs a good kick in the head. > > Just to clarify that I'm not picking on Samir as he's a nice guy, but > qmail is complete and total crap. I find it odd that it's still held in > high regard, though it was the bees knees back in '99, when it is so > clearly dead and Sendmail, Exim, and Postfix are so much better and > capable at this point in time. > > Ramin > -- > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni > -- Regards Samir Faci safaci2000@gmail.com Quote: Although, golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing. -- Dave Berry From seva at sevatech.com Wed Jan 10 01:51:42 2007 From: seva at sevatech.com (Seva Epsteyn) Date: Wed Jan 10 01:51:43 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Recommendations for CoLo or Hosting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've been using FDCServers.net for a number of years, their service is not the best, they are not the most reliable or professional, but they are pretty cheap at $100/mo for 10mbit/s port of shared unmetered bandwidth. They are located in the Chicago Board Of Trade building and I have hosted luni.org there for quite a while. If your server runs hot you may have problems, they often rely on openining windows in the summer for cooling. I don't know if that's still true and they have apparently opened a new data center room there as well, so perhaps heat issues are better now. Looking at their web site right now, I don't see the $99/mo plan, but I bet if you contact them they'll do it. On their forums I see this deal though: ECONOMY COLO single rack server up to 4U or tower server 1Mbit port - full duplex Dedicated bandwidth Electric included FREE SETUP - $49/month Seems like a good deal for $50/mo. Oh, they've increaesd the fees by $10/mo apparently to offset electrical costs increase starting this month. -Seva On Tue, 9 Jan 2007, Jay Strauss wrote: > Hi, > > I need to run an Oracle database, Apache, and Perl (and many perl > modules). I currently have a T1 into my basement, but for various > reasons would like to move it somewhere safer, with a faster (maybe > redundant) internet connection, clean and backed up power source... > > My current T1 runs me about $300/mo for a 768/768 > > Can anyone recommend an inexpensive colo facility? Ideally one that > wouldn't require me to have a rack mountable server. > > Would a hosting service let me install Oracle? If so, any recommendations? > > Thanks > Jay > From awbassett at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 08:12:41 2007 From: awbassett at gmail.com (Andrew Bassett) Date: Wed Jan 10 08:12:51 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Sendmail setup guide? In-Reply-To: References: <1168398332.5831.1.camel@scott-640m> <45A48264.7070209@badapple.net> <45A4895C.4090505@badapple.net> Message-ID: <41e5af610701100612k620d9afdu50331cafc4630447@mail.gmail.com> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MailServer (It uses Postfix in examples, it's pretty tough to find a sendmail guide for Ubuntu.) I've used a lot of the community docs as a reference before. Some are incomplete, but the ones that are complete are generally pretty good. Thanks, Andrew Bassett awbassett@gmail.com On 1/10/07, Samir Faci wrote: > > lol.. I actually agree with that... I tried using it since the guy who > wrote it is at UIC, but couldn't make myself like it.. too patchy.. > (not that i spent more then a week on it before getting frustrated) > > just mentioned it since that's one of the two main ones that popped to > mind. > > -- > Samir > > On 1/10/07, Ramin K wrote: > > Ramin K wrote: > > > For the record Postfix is my favorite MTA and anyone recommending > qmail > > > these days needs a good kick in the head. > > > > Just to clarify that I'm not picking on Samir as he's a nice guy, but > > qmail is complete and total crap. I find it odd that it's still held in > > high regard, though it was the bees knees back in '99, when it is so > > clearly dead and Sendmail, Exim, and Postfix are so much better and > > capable at this point in time. > > > > Ramin > > -- > > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni > > > > > -- > Regards > Samir Faci > safaci2000@gmail.com > Quote: Although, golf was originally restricted to wealthy, > overweight protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous > clothing. > -- Dave Berry > -- > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni > From scott at cashnetusa.com Wed Jan 10 10:00:12 2007 From: scott at cashnetusa.com (Scott Lockwood) Date: Wed Jan 10 10:00:24 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Sendmail setup guide? In-Reply-To: <45A48264.7070209@badapple.net> References: <1168398332.5831.1.camel@scott-640m> <45A48264.7070209@badapple.net> Message-ID: <1168444812.5783.0.camel@scott-640m> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 22:06 -0800, Ramin K wrote: > Scott Lockwood wrote: > > I'm looking for a good guide to setting up sendmail with smtp auth, and > > tls on Ubuntu. Google hasn't yeilded much in a cursory search, so I > > figured I'd ask here before reinventing the wheel. > > > > http://www.howtoforge.com/howto_sendmail_smtp_auth_tls > Build from scratch, looks annoying. > > http://www.adap.org/~edsel/blog/archives/48 > less building and more letting the distro handle the dirty work. This > is the one I'd use assuming Debian 3.1 resembles your Ubuntu. > > For the record Postfix is my favorite MTA and anyone recommending qmail > these days needs a good kick in the head. > > Ramin This is excellent - thank you! From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Wed Jan 10 15:22:48 2007 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Wed Jan 10 15:22:54 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Be Very Very Quiet Message-ID: <3096c19d0701101322v9ff06e1r9893f6165b6a97d3@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, Does anyone have any advice on building a very quiet pc? I just moved my office into our main living space, and the sound of my linux server is irritating. It's not a very beefy box, so I could potentially get one of those teeny tiny cases. Does anyone have any advice? Also, I'm super cheap, so audiophile stuff is probably out of my cheap-range. Thanks, Chris From jkaplenk at aol.com Wed Jan 10 16:30:29 2007 From: jkaplenk at aol.com (jkaplenk@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 10 15:30:47 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Be Very Very Quiet In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0701101322v9ff06e1r9893f6165b6a97d3@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d0701101322v9ff06e1r9893f6165b6a97d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C90315AF4C9050-A50-1798@FWM-M01.sysops.aol.com> Look for fans that are advertised as being low-noise. Joe -----Original Message----- From: chris.mcavoy@gmail.com To: luni@luni.org Sent: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 3:22 PM Subject: [LUNI] Be Very Very Quiet Hi All, Does anyone have any advice on building a very quiet pc? I just moved my office into our main living space, and the sound of my linux server is irritating. It's not a very beefy box, so I could potentially get one of those teeny tiny cases. Does anyone have any advice? Also, I'm super cheap, so audiophile stuff is probably out of my cheap-range. Thanks, Chris -- Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. From sfaci at cs.uic.edu Wed Jan 10 15:32:54 2007 From: sfaci at cs.uic.edu (Samir Faci) Date: Wed Jan 10 15:32:56 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Be Very Very Quiet In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0701101322v9ff06e1r9893f6165b6a97d3@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d0701101322v9ff06e1r9893f6165b6a97d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: custom build a box and put in water cooling... the Sempron chips should be okay for a stand alone server... you could get something for around $400-500 Don't know otherwise, maybe someone else can chip in. -- Samir On 1/10/07, Chris McAvoy wrote: > Hi All, > > Does anyone have any advice on building a very quiet pc? I just moved > my office into our main living space, and the sound of my linux server > is irritating. It's not a very beefy box, so I could potentially get > one of those teeny tiny cases. Does anyone have any advice? > > Also, I'm super cheap, so audiophile stuff is probably out of my cheap-range. > > Thanks, > Chris > -- > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni > -- Regards Samir Faci safaci2000@gmail.com Quote: Although, golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing. -- Dave Berry From scott at cashnetusa.com Wed Jan 10 15:37:00 2007 From: scott at cashnetusa.com (Scott Lockwood) Date: Wed Jan 10 15:37:12 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Be Very Very Quiet In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0701101322v9ff06e1r9893f6165b6a97d3@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d0701101322v9ff06e1r9893f6165b6a97d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168465020.5783.22.camel@scott-640m> On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 15:22 -0600, Chris McAvoy wrote: > Hi All, > > Does anyone have any advice on building a very quiet pc? I just moved > my office into our main living space, and the sound of my linux server > is irritating. It's not a very beefy box, so I could potentially get > one of those teeny tiny cases. Does anyone have any advice? > > Also, I'm super cheap, so audiophile stuff is probably out of my cheap-range. > > Thanks, > Chris #1: Invest in good fans. Not to go overboard on expense, but get something better than what you're going to find off the shelf at best buy. You can get fans that are a lot quieter. #2: Ditto for the power supply. Spend the extra on one that's quiet. #3: Ditch the fans entirely, and go to an active water cooled system. #4: Fiberglass. From sean-lynch at sean-lynch.com Wed Jan 10 14:51:45 2007 From: sean-lynch at sean-lynch.com (sean-lynch@sean-lynch.com) Date: Wed Jan 10 15:51:56 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Be Very Very Quiet In-Reply-To: <1168465020.5783.22.camel@scott-640m> References: <3096c19d0701101322v9ff06e1r9893f6165b6a97d3@mail.gmail.com> <1168465020.5783.22.camel@scott-640m> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:37:00 -0600 Scott Lockwood wrote: > > #1: Invest in good fans. Not to go overboard on expense, >but get > something better than what you're going to find off the >shelf at best > buy. You can get fans that are a lot quieter. > > #2: Ditto for the power supply. Spend the extra on one >that's quiet. > > #3: Ditch the fans entirely, and go to an active water >cooled system. > > #4: Fiberglass. > > -- > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni Adding on to suggestion #1... Look for a box that support 120mm fans. The larger fans will move the same amount of air while spinning at a lower speed as a 80mm fan spinning at a higher speed would. and try to avoid ribbon cables inside the box. The round cables are a little more expensive, but don't block airflow in the box. From larry at garfieldtech.com Wed Jan 10 15:59:23 2007 From: larry at garfieldtech.com (Larry Garfield) Date: Wed Jan 10 16:00:26 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Be Very Very Quiet In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0701101322v9ff06e1r9893f6165b6a97d3@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d0701101322v9ff06e1r9893f6165b6a97d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <07408785b6767bce87961276b7657c1e@localhost> I've been trying to quiet down my own systems of late as well. Here's a few tips I've found: The loudest thing in your box is your hard drive. Get a quiet hard drive and treat it well. I've just recently purchased 3 Seagate Baracuda SATA drives, and they're some of the quietest drives I've ever owned. I think drives tend to get louder over time, though, which is sad. Regarding fans, don't over-do it. Every fan is an extra few decibels. Don't use a fan slot if you don't have to. If your case has room for 3 fans, just use one of them unless you have heat or circulation problems. Over-using fans won't hurt the system, but will be louder. Where possible, get larger, slower fans. What's important for a fan's cooling power is its displacement, NOT its speed. Big blades can move slower and push the same amount of air as small, fast-moving fans. Slower fans = quieter fans (generally). You won't find any fans lower than about 19 dB, I think. The best displacement/dB fans I found when I was last looking also turned out to be the cheapest, and had funky-glowy-shit on them, too. I don't mind the funky-glowy-shit, as long as it was cheap, cool, and quiet, and I was lucky and found fans with all of those. (I believe they were CoolerMaster. I bought a box of a dozen. ) That goes for case fans AND CPU fans. For the power supply, look for one that has an internal fan on the intake rather than an exhuast fan in the back. For one, that means the sound of the fan is contained within the case. For another, that usually means it's a 120 mm fan rather than an 80 mm fan. See above about bigger = slower = quieter. I've got 4 PCs next to each other in my living room. Just by following the rules above, I've been able to cut the sound from them by over a third in the past year (mostly by replacing the server when it died, as its hard drive was ridiculously loud.) Microcenter has case fans for $6 each and respectable power supplies for $30. Even giant hard drives aren't that expensive anymore, if you decide to go that far. It depends what it is that's making the msot noise right now. Cheers. --Larry Garfield On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:22:48 -0600, "Chris McAvoy" wrote: > Hi All, > > Does anyone have any advice on building a very quiet pc? I just moved > my office into our main living space, and the sound of my linux server > is irritating. It's not a very beefy box, so I could potentially get > one of those teeny tiny cases. Does anyone have any advice? > > Also, I'm super cheap, so audiophile stuff is probably out of my > cheap-range. > > Thanks, > Chris > -- > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni From ehle at agni.phys.iit.edu Wed Jan 10 16:00:44 2007 From: ehle at agni.phys.iit.edu (David Ehle) Date: Wed Jan 10 16:05:52 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Re: Be Very Very Quiet. In-Reply-To: <200701102152.l0ALq6jb026557@null.sevatech.com> References: <200701102152.l0ALq6jb026557@null.sevatech.com> Message-ID: I hate to even mention this... but the simplest and cheapest answer? Buy a Dell. PUT DOWN THE TOMATOES. I've fought with this several times now using all sorts of solutions including the little VIA fanless cpu's and honestly the off the website dells are some of the quietest computers out there. Now there are some downsides like well, dell quality, and luck of the draw in linux compatibility but they really are VERY quiet machines. Several times I've turned one off by accident because I couldn't tell by listening if it was on or not. :P -- David Ehle Computing Systems Manager CAPP CSRRI rm 077 LS Bld. IIT Main Campus Chicago IL 60616 ehle@iit.edu 312-567-3751 He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. From RCRamsdell at gldd.com Wed Jan 10 16:03:18 2007 From: RCRamsdell at gldd.com (RCRamsdell@gldd.com) Date: Wed Jan 10 16:18:06 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Be Very Very Quiet In-Reply-To: References: <3096c19d0701101322v9ff06e1r9893f6165b6a97d3@mail.gmail.com> <1168465020.5783.22.camel@scott-640m> Message-ID: <1B8095D2D98F0C4DBCC188DE18485DB523F853@NEWMAIL.internal.gldd.com> A former co-worker used the simple expedient of stuffing the box with tissue, then disconnecting the fan. IT found out when he complained that he could smell something burning. Thank goodness his sense of smell was better than his common sense. Robert > -----Original Message----- > From: luni-bounces@luni.org [mailto:luni-bounces@luni.org] On > Behalf Of sean-lynch@sean-lynch.com > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 3:52 PM > To: luni@luni.org > Subject: Re: [LUNI] Be Very Very Quiet > > On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:37:00 -0600 > Scott Lockwood wrote: > > > > #1: Invest in good fans. Not to go overboard on expense, but get > >something better than what you're going to find off the > shelf at best > >buy. You can get fans that are a lot quieter. > > > > #2: Ditto for the power supply. Spend the extra on one that's quiet. > > > > #3: Ditch the fans entirely, and go to an active water > cooled system. > > > > #4: Fiberglass. > > > > -- > > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni > > Adding on to suggestion #1... > Look for a box that support 120mm fans. > The larger fans will move the same amount of air while > spinning at a lower speed as a 80mm fan spinning at a higher > speed would. and try to avoid ribbon cables inside the box. > The round cables are a little more expensive, but don't block > airflow in the box. > -- > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni > From mark at msbrepairs.com Wed Jan 10 16:26:46 2007 From: mark at msbrepairs.com (Mark Stuart Burge) Date: Wed Jan 10 16:26:54 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Re: Be Very Very Quiet. In-Reply-To: References: <200701102152.l0ALq6jb026557@null.sevatech.com> Message-ID: <45A56826.4040206@msbrepairs.com> I would second that. The E310 E510 series of dimensions work out of the box with ubuntu and are very quiet. I have even used one of these as a server and it has proved stable hardware. David Ehle wrote: > > I hate to even mention this... but the simplest and cheapest answer? Buy > a Dell. PUT DOWN THE TOMATOES. I've fought with this several times now > using all sorts of solutions including the little VIA fanless cpu's and > honestly the off the website dells are some of the quietest computers out > there. > > Now there are some downsides like well, dell quality, and luck of the > draw > in linux compatibility but they really are VERY quiet machines. Several > times I've turned one off by accident because I couldn't tell by > listening > if it was on or not. :P > > > > > > -- > David Ehle > Computing Systems Manager > CAPP CSRRI > rm 077 > LS Bld. IIT Main Campus > Chicago IL 60616 > ehle@iit.edu > 312-567-3751 > > He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a > monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also > into > you. > From justin+luni at dicatek.com Wed Jan 10 14:15:30 2007 From: justin+luni at dicatek.com (justin+luni@dicatek.com) Date: Wed Jan 10 16:32:26 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Be Very Very Quiet In-Reply-To: <07408785b6767bce87961276b7657c1e@localhost> References: <3096c19d0701101322v9ff06e1r9893f6165b6a97d3@mail.gmail.com> <07408785b6767bce87961276b7657c1e@localhost> Message-ID: Use a Seagate Barracuda hard drive and a Zalman CPU heatsink (some of the big ones can be operated fanless, depending on your CPU), with a fanless motherboard with onboard video. Then your biggest remaining noise source is the power supply fan. I haven't found any good way to be cheap here. If you use little power and you don't mind pushing things a bit, you can splice in a hefty resistor to reduce fan speed. :) Justin From trev at advanced-reality.com Wed Jan 10 17:19:20 2007 From: trev at advanced-reality.com (Trev Peterson) Date: Wed Jan 10 17:18:25 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Be Very Very Quiet In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0701101322v9ff06e1r9893f6165b6a97d3@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d0701101322v9ff06e1r9893f6165b6a97d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1168471160.6982.183.camel@aegir.advanced-reality.com> Well here are several suggestions for building a PC (some of which others have already said): 1. Processor - use a low power processor (intel core/core2 or AMD low power processors) 2. Fans - use large, slower fans with ball bearings instead of sleeve bearings (the sleeve bearings are just as quiet for the first 3 -6 months then they get progressively louder). 3. Screw the fans down tightly or use gaskets (the vibration between fan and case amplifies the noise considerably). 4. PSU - get a silent or quiet PSU and don't get one much larger than you need (or you will have to cool it). 5. HDD - had a lot of success with seagate drives and use them almost exclusively now One last thing, I suggest getting a case with a power indication light. I have trouble telling if the last system I built is on or not. HTH On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 15:22 -0600, Chris McAvoy wrote: > Hi All, > > Does anyone have any advice on building a very quiet pc? I just moved > my office into our main living space, and the sound of my linux server > is irritating. It's not a very beefy box, so I could potentially get > one of those teeny tiny cases. Does anyone have any advice? > > Also, I'm super cheap, so audiophile stuff is probably out of my cheap-range. > > Thanks, > Chris -- Trev Peterson Advanced Reality From wb8nbs at prodigy.net Wed Jan 10 22:29:56 2007 From: wb8nbs at prodigy.net (Jim Harvey) Date: Wed Jan 10 22:30:12 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Be Very Very Quiet In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0701101322v9ff06e1r9893f6165b6a97d3@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d0701101322v9ff06e1r9893f6165b6a97d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45A5BD44.5040201@prodigy.net> Chris McAvoy wrote: > Hi All, > > Does anyone have any advice on building a very quiet pc? This is probably way under powered for an office, but I've been using a Visara 1783 (1883 is similar) for 3 years as a firewall. It's a little bigger than a cigar box. 200 mhz processor and NO fans. Put in a Fujitsu laptop hard drive (the ones with the fluid bearings) and totally silent. I see them on Ebay for under $20, I'm thinking of picking up a spare. From chris at susi.net Thu Jan 11 04:59:31 2007 From: chris at susi.net (Christopher S. Susi) Date: Thu Jan 11 05:07:44 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Be Very Very Quiet In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0701101322v9ff06e1r9893f6165b6a97d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <04c501c7356f$92a04f10$0100000a@black> 8 gallons of cooking oil... http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/01/09/strip_out_the_fans/ Not only is it quiet, not only will it make a great conversation piece, but it'll also double as a deep fryer if you over clock the CPU enough > -----Original Message----- > From: luni-bounces@luni.org [mailto:luni-bounces@luni.org] On Behalf Of > Chris McAvoy > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 3:23 PM > To: Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > Subject: [LUNI] Be Very Very Quiet > > Hi All, > > Does anyone have any advice on building a very quiet pc? I just moved > my office into our main living space, and the sound of my linux server > is irritating. It's not a very beefy box, so I could potentially get > one of those teeny tiny cases. Does anyone have any advice? > > Also, I'm super cheap, so audiophile stuff is probably out of my cheap- > range. > > Thanks, > Chris > -- > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni From me at heyjay.com Thu Jan 11 07:48:48 2007 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Thu Jan 11 07:48:52 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Re: Recommendations for CoLo or Hosting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Can anyone recommend an inexpensive colo facility? Ideally one that > wouldn't require me to have a rack mountable server. Thanks everyone. I was unfamiliar with the term VPS (Virtual Private Server) but I'm aware of the concept. I'm not sure how that flys with Oracle, since I usually need to modifiy kernel parms to make it work (or tune). Seva: when you say "they are not the most reliable or professional", can you give me an example of outage frequency and duration? I'll check out all of them thanks Jay From craig at codestorm.org Thu Jan 11 09:42:54 2007 From: craig at codestorm.org (Craig Van Tassle) Date: Thu Jan 11 09:58:32 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Sendmail setup guide? In-Reply-To: References: <1168398332.5831.1.camel@scott-640m> <1168406231.5831.33.camel@scott-640m> Message-ID: <45A65AFE.80100@codestorm.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Samir, I would not Google Gentoo Postfix, a lot of there guides are borken (I just did it). With Ubuntu just use apt-get install sendmail (or postfix) It actually asked you how you want your basic set and leaves a lot of example setups in the /etc/postfix Also there are several good books on Postfix that are very helpful. Samir Faci wrote: > Scott, > > Well... I've never used sendmail honestly, there would have been a few > postfix howtos I would have pointed you to, but as far as mailservers > go, sendmail seems to always have been associated with horror stories. > It could be a bad stereotype, but never saw the need to over > complicate things, when postfix seemed to work just fine. > > for postfix, I'd just google postfix gentoo and there are a ton of > guides out there.. both wiki and official. (or substitute gentoo for > your fav distro, though it seems to me that gentoo and unbuntu have > the better forums these days) > > -- > Samir > > On 1/9/07, Scott Lockwood wrote: >> I'd still very much like to hear your answer. :-) >> >> On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 22:06 -0600, Samir Faci wrote: >> > Before I answer, any particular reason you'd like to use sendmail over >> > postfix or qmail or any other mail server? >> > >> > -- >> > Samir >> > >> > On 1/9/07, Scott Lockwood wrote: >> > > I'm looking for a good guide to setting up sendmail with smtp >> auth, and >> > > tls on Ubuntu. Google hasn't yeilded much in a cursory search, so I >> > > figured I'd ask here before reinventing the wheel. >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion >> > > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni >> > > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Regards >> > Samir Faci >> > safaci2000@gmail.com >> > Quote: Although, golf was originally restricted to wealthy, >> > overweight protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous >> > clothing. >> > -- Dave Berry >> >> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFplr+AOTIJ89W4sIRAlppAJ4tJ2DW1/Bsfi/l7vWD72V7+Q23pgCg/I// NINHDtvWnsR73Io7wXpLYpA= =M4U0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From zionics at crankynerd.com Thu Jan 11 10:04:28 2007 From: zionics at crankynerd.com (Scott Zionic) Date: Thu Jan 11 10:04:40 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Sendmail setup guide? In-Reply-To: <45A65AFE.80100@codestorm.org> References: <1168398332.5831.1.camel@scott-640m> <1168406231.5831.33.camel@scott-640m> <45A65AFE.80100@codestorm.org> Message-ID: <45A6600C.6060909@crankynerd.com> Craig Van Tassle wrote: > I would not Google Gentoo Postfix, a lot of there guides are borken (I just did > it). The official guides on gentoo.org are very readable and very reliable: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/virt-mail-howto.xml http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/?catid=sysadmin Scott From craig at codestorm.org Thu Jan 11 11:35:02 2007 From: craig at codestorm.org (Craig Van Tassle) Date: Thu Jan 11 11:29:52 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Sendmail setup guide? In-Reply-To: <45A6600C.6060909@crankynerd.com> References: <1168398332.5831.1.camel@scott-640m> <1168406231.5831.33.camel@scott-640m> <45A65AFE.80100@codestorm.org> <45A6600C.6060909@crankynerd.com> Message-ID: <45A67546.1030001@codestorm.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I agree they are reliable but I've discovered with Gentoo there is the Linux way and then there is the Gentoo way. I usualy take what gentoo documentation with a grain of salt. I really dislike Gentoo's community and thus the Distro its self Craig Scott Zionic wrote: > > > Craig Van Tassle wrote: >> I would not Google Gentoo Postfix, a lot of there guides are borken (I >> just did >> it). > > > The official guides on gentoo.org are very readable and very reliable: > > http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/virt-mail-howto.xml > http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/?catid=sysadmin > > Scott > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFpnVGAOTIJ89W4sIRAq/CAKCxY7oCWvUibNZtTPFYhIqNYRZVbgCfVk5+ vn63mtsle1BP6HmkWEuNUkM= =GvUj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sfaci at cs.uic.edu Thu Jan 11 11:48:21 2007 From: sfaci at cs.uic.edu (Samir Faci) Date: Thu Jan 11 11:48:25 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Sendmail setup guide? In-Reply-To: <45A67546.1030001@codestorm.org> References: <1168398332.5831.1.camel@scott-640m> <1168406231.5831.33.camel@scott-640m> <45A65AFE.80100@codestorm.org> <45A6600C.6060909@crankynerd.com> <45A67546.1030001@codestorm.org> Message-ID: *shrug* never had a problem with it. I think they have a spectacular documentation like I said in my first email gentoo and ubuntu seem to be the most active communities right now. Whether you like the gentoo way or not, it still provides a howto guide step by step on how to get the job done. Either way, the individual concerned I believe found a solution using sendmail which was his original question. -- Samir On 1/11/07, Craig Van Tassle wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I agree they are reliable but I've discovered with Gentoo there is the Linux way > and then there is the Gentoo way. I usualy take what gentoo documentation with a > grain of salt. > > > I really dislike Gentoo's community and thus the Distro its self > > > Craig > > Scott Zionic wrote: > > > > > > Craig Van Tassle wrote: > >> I would not Google Gentoo Postfix, a lot of there guides are borken (I > >> just did > >> it). > > > > > > The official guides on gentoo.org are very readable and very reliable: > > > > http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/virt-mail-howto.xml > > http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/?catid=sysadmin > > > > Scott > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFFpnVGAOTIJ89W4sIRAq/CAKCxY7oCWvUibNZtTPFYhIqNYRZVbgCfVk5+ > vn63mtsle1BP6HmkWEuNUkM= > =GvUj > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > Linux Users Of Northern Illinois - Technical Discussion > http://luni.org/mailman/listinfo/luni > -- Regards Samir Faci safaci2000@gmail.com Quote: Although, golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing. -- Dave Berry From scott at cashnetusa.com Thu Jan 11 12:08:18 2007 From: scott at cashnetusa.com (Scott Lockwood) Date: Thu Jan 11 12:08:31 2007 Subject: [LUNI] Sendmail setup guide? In-Reply-To: References: <1168398332.5831.1.camel@scott-640m> <1168406231.5831.33.camel@scott-640m> <45A65AFE.80100@codestorm.org> <45A6600C.6060909@crankynerd.com> <45A67546.1030001@codestorm.org> Message-ID: <1168538898.5642.14.camel@scott-640m> On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 11:48 -0600, Samir Faci wrote: > *shrug* never had a problem with it. I think they have a spectacular > documentation like I said in my first email gentoo and ubuntu seem to > be the most active communities right now. > Whether you like the gentoo way or not, it still provides a howto > guide step by step on how to get the job done. > Either way, the individual concerned I believe found a solution using > sendmail which was his original question. > -- > Samir Mostly. I'm down to one last problem. I keep getting the following error, and nothing I do seems to be able to fix it. Google has been less than helpful, as has ubuntu's official and non-official support forums, and sendmail.org's documentation has been equally useless. Sendmail, it seems, cannot find the local host name. This is despite it being correctly set in /etc/hosts, in /etc/mail/local-host-names, in DNS, etc. I've verified that DNS works. All other errors have been squashed. When issuing a make all, or a sendmailconfig